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ashokgoyal42 said:
instead I dip and dunk the films in a bucket of mineral drinking water for ten minutes.)

Ashok
Click to expand...

Replace mineral drinking water with distilled water.

Steve
 
Hi Michael,

I'm not using a hypo ... so that's where the problem is. I swear I've read and reread the Ilford process sheets and no mention of Hypo in the process, their Washaid is supposed to be for paper. But I'll add that into my process now. How long does one Hypo, a minute?

Ashok
 
ashokgoyal42 said:
But I'll add that into my process now. How long does one Hypo, a minute?
Click to expand...

Twenty minute wash if only water is used. Ten minutes is hypo clearing agent is used. If you do not use hypo the negative will fade.

Steve
 
ashokgoyal42 said:
Hi Michael,

I'm not using a hypo ... so that's where the problem is. I swear I've read and reread the Ilford process sheets and no mention of Hypo in the process, their Washaid is supposed to be for paper. But I'll add that into my process now. How long does one Hypo, a minute?

Ashok
Click to expand...
You may be using hypo and call it fixer(hypo is an antiquated term). Whether or not you use hypo clearing agent is a personal choice.
 
ashokgoyal42 said:
Hi Michael,

I'm not using a hypo ... so that's where the problem is. I swear I've read and reread the Ilford process sheets and no mention of Hypo in the process, their Washaid is supposed to be for paper. But I'll add that into my process now. How long does one Hypo, a minute?

Ashok
Click to expand...

Hypo is fixer. Hypo clearing agents are washing aids that are used between the fixer and the wash. They are called hypo clearing agents because they are agents that clear hypo. Hypo Clearing Agent is what Kodak calls their brand of washing aid. Washaid is what Ilford calls their brand of hypo clearing agent. :D

So, yes, Ilford does call for a hypo clearing agent in their published process. If my memory serves me correctly, they recommend ten minutes in it, and a shorter wash than Kodak, while Kodak recommend two or three minutes in it, and a longer wash than Ilford.

P.S. This stuff is explained in basic photo textbooks, which you can get at the library or a book shop.
 
Unfortunately some people call "hypo clearing agent" "hypo", which it is not. I had to correct a clerk at FreeStyle twice in one conversation and then I explained the difference and why the sloppy use of terminology was really bad thing for anyone to do - especially a person in their position. That clerk never made that mistake again, well at least not in my presents.
 
2F/2F said:
Ooooh! They give you presents when you go to Samy's??? :wink:
Click to expand...

If you consider some of the prices they gave me on Hasselblad equipment then yes. On the Hasselblad 903 SWC they were $600 less than KEH on the same model and same condition. I geuss being a repeat customer with the same sales person for several years has it positive points.
 
Michael R 1974 said:
I was clear on it in my responses to OP I thought. I said hypo clearing/washaid, not hypo. While we're at it, nobody should have ever made the mistake of calling fixer "hypo" in the first place. "Thio" would have been far more correct, since to my knowledge there has never been hypo-anything in fixer. Ansel and others should have taken more of a stand against the use of the term hypo, instead of going with convention.
Click to expand...

You were clear. I was commenting on the sloppy word usage that occurs outside of APUG. Since the OP was unclear on the use of hypo, I thought pointing out the sloppy word use would help him avoid another problem.

Steve
 
Michael R 1974 said:
...to my knowledge there has never been hypo-anything in fixer.
Click to expand...

Hyposulphite of soda is an antiquated name (TMK - may still be used as far as I know) for the active ingredient in fixer. However, I had never heard it put that way until I just Googled it. I always heard it called sodium hyposulphite by my instructors. One of them even called it "hyposodium thiosulphite" (erroneously, AFAIK).

My post was in response to the one fellow's use of the term "hypo" to mean "hypo clearing agent."
 
Also, from Photographers' Formulary, [right off the bottle] "Sodium Thiosulfate (Hypo, Penta)" "CAS NO. 7772-98-7"

Steve
 
Sirius Glass said:
Also, from Photographers' Formulary, [right off the bottle] "Sodium Thiosulfate (Hypo, Penta)"

Steve
Click to expand...

It is a nickname...and screw Ansel Adams if he didn't like it! It makes perfect sense as a nickname. It is simply like saying "transmission oil," the old school way of saying it, instead of "transmission fluid," as we usually say today.
 
The process I'm using is fairly simple. And is extracted from the Ilford papers on LC29 and HP5.
(Some amendments have been made for timings taking into account temperature and number of films).

LC29 in Yankee Tank (YT) 5min (HP5 27C)
Water in YT 1min
ILFOSTOP in YT 1min
Water in YT 1min
ILFORD FIXER in YT 5min
Water Rinse in Bucket 10 min (Intermittent pouring with bottles included)
Formulary Wetting Agent in YT 1min
Hook, Dry and Sleeve.

Ilford has a Washaid, which they say reduces the rinse time. I've not tried this as yet but I will. I will also tally the chemicals in both to erase any confusion. To my knowledge Ilford's Rapid fixer and Washaid are two separate things. Washaid is used to remove hardening fixer and is primarily made for paper use.

Ashok
 
OK, here goes - I read Rapid Fixer and Washaid details (yet again). Rapid Fixer is Ammonium Thiosulphate, and Washaid is a hypo eliminator. Hypo is Sodium Thiosulphate. SO ... technically there's either an issue with my washing/rinsing process or the temperature at which I'm doing this process which is resulting in that stubborn sticky drop (I tried to remove it with a lens cleaner -total disaster).

Any thoughts or experiences to share?
 
ashokgoyal42 said:
OK, here goes - I read Rapid Fixer and Washaid details (yet again). Rapid Fixer is Ammonium Thiosulphate, and Washaid is a hypo eliminator. Hypo is Sodium Thiosulphate. SO ... technically there's either an issue with my washing/rinsing process or the temperature at which I'm doing this process which is resulting in that stubborn sticky drop (I tried to remove it with a lens cleaner -total disaster).

Any thoughts or experiences to share?
Click to expand...

Rapid fixer - active ingredient is ammonium thiosulfate, so correct there. Older fixer formulations are based on sodium thiosulfate. The ammonia based fixers have more capacity and work faster. Either can be acidic, neutral, or alkaline. Only acidic versions may or may not contain a hardener. Any will do the job under the vast majority of circumstances. Fixers containing hardeners are the most difficult to wash out. Processes using a hardening fixer will benefit from the use of a hypo clearing agent, but I suspect that the clearing agent will nullify the effects of the hardener to a degree.

Wash Aid and Hypo clearing Agent are trade names for what is not much more than a solution of sodium sulfite in water. It is NOT the same as a hypo eliminator. The effect is to make washing out of residual fixer more efficient. These products are most useful for treating fiber based prints prior to the final wash, and are completely unnecessary for RC papers and films. Hypo eliminator is something completely different that uses a peroxide to destroy the thiosulfate. These products are no longer recommended because they have deleterious effects on the final product.

I don't understand why your negatives are coming out of the wash sticky. The only thing I can think of that causes that sort of problem is a wetting agent, be it Photoflo, Edwal LFN, or anything else. All of them are based on a surfactant, in essence a specialized detergent, designed to reduce the surface tension of the water. These should be used very sparingly, and the manufacturer's recommended dilutions may be too strong for your water supply. Do not hesitate to dilute it more than recommended. All it needs to do is to prevent the water from beading up. The goal is to use only enough to produce that result and no more. Excess wetting agent can and will leave a residue on your film, and it can be sticky. You'll need to experiment to determine just how much wetting agent to use. Again, only enough to prevent beading and no more. If it foams excessively, it's too much.
 
You have a syringe or pipette to measure the 2ml of the Ilfotol needed for 400ml of wetting agent? You throw out the diluted wetting agent after using it?
 
fschifano said:
Wash Aid and Hypo clearing Agent are trade names for what is not much more than a solution of sodium sulfite in water. It is NOT the same as a hypo eliminator. ... .Excess wetting agent can and will leave a residue on your film, and it can be sticky. You'll need to experiment to determine just how much wetting agent to use. Again, only enough to prevent beading and no more. If it foams excessively, it's too much.
Click to expand...

Thanks Frank. I will experiment with the WA and check.
 
ic-racer said:
You have a syringe or pipette to measure the 2ml of the Ilfotol needed for 400ml of wetting agent? You throw out the diluted wetting agent after using it?
Click to expand...

I don't have a pipette, but I prepare 2L of Ilfotol using 50ml to 1950ml as recommended. I prepare new wetting agent every time.
 
My bottle of Ilfotol states a recommended dilution of 1+200. To make 2 litres working solution you need 10ml, not 50.
 
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