3D Printing film cameras and parts

[Donald Qualls]

There are .stl editors around -- Meshmixer and Meshlab, for instance -- and FreeCAD (among other 3D CAD packages) can import .stl as a solid that you can then modify with its own tools (additive and subtractive primitives, sketches, etc.). I'm not huge on the idea of analyzing half a megabyte of gcode, myself, never mind writing it from scratch, though I have made a folder in my 3D Printing file to stash gcode fragments -- like one that will park the printer with the bed extended, so I can drop magnets or other embedded objects into their pockets and then resume the print with a single click of the control knob, and one for a filament change (for multicolor prints, mainly). I found FreeCAD easy to learn by following YouTube tutorials, and I've made a number of objects so far (printed all of them successfully except the current work-in-progress, which isn't ready yet).

 

[ProfessorC1983]

Yes, I can import STL into OpenSCAD and perform additive/subtractive modifications, but it gets difficult e.g. to scale the original shape along a single dimension, etc.

And just to be clear, I'm definitely not talking about writing massive amounts of GCODE myself -- no one should do that and for very good reason! (Though I like your idea of adding pauses between layers to insert little parts etc, normally I just print those as separate objects and glue them which isn't always desirable.) The "code" involved is much higher level and involves saying things like "cube(x, y, z);" rather than creating a cube with the mouse in a GUI. Just way more in line with the way I think as a software engineer, and makes projects that are much easier to modify later on because (for example) I can make multiple complex shapes with dimensions computed based on the camera's focal length, and if I want to use the same design for a longer/shorter FL I just input the new value as a variable and it automatically re-renders everything. I then export to a STL and slice it normally in Cura.

I used the same technique to make a customizable Galilean viewfinder -- just input the desired FL and film size and it generates the VF shell and mask ready-to-print, and even recommends which optics to buy. That's the kind of project I'd love to share and find collaborators for, because I've got too many other silly ideas competing for attention.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Ah, I see -- you're working in high level language, as opposed to the "machine code" of gcode. I'm still more of a visual thinker, but I like the possibilities of making objects that can adjust themselves because the dimensions are calculated rather than hard coded.

 

[grat]

It's not procedural, but I like DesignSpark Mechanical for editing 3D objects to turn into STL files.

I've used Blender to repair STL files, but ye Gods it's a pain in the posterior to do. DSM will also import STL files, and convert them into solid objects so recently, that's been my method for repairing-- import, convert back to solid, export as STL.

 

[titrisol]

Meshmixer does a good job in complex object, but netfabb (old free version) works just fine

It's not procedural, but I like DesignSpark Mechanical for editing 3D objects to turn into STL files.

I've used Blender to repair STL files, but ye Gods it's a pain in the posterior to do. DSM will also import STL files, and convert them into solid objects so recently, that's been my method for repairing-- import, convert back to solid, export as STL.

 

[radiant]

Sketching (mostly) 3D printed 5x7" compact camera here ..

 

[grahamp]

I finally managed to develop my test film for the Will Travel 90mm body (90mm f8 Super-Angulon) with the ekech 6x12 roll film back. I had the holder in daylight for a week to see what I could find in the way of light leaks when on and off the camera. It looks like the only leak is opposite one or both of the rollers where the film is facing the outer wall of the spool cover. I'm not sure if it is plastic opacity or something coming through the light trap. I have added some more paint to see if that helps. If not I can always do a new cover piece with thicker walls and more infill.

However, the inter-frame spacing is ample, and the fog bar does not get close to the frame edges. It only occurs around the frame that was in position while the back was sitting around. It does not occur between frames shot in quick sequence. I'll put a scan in the tech gallery.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I've looked at those 6x9 and 6x12 backs. I'd probably try to remix them to get rid of the "built from sheet material" look, but I'm interested in what you found relative to the light leaks. It's a MUCH better price than the ones I see on eBay...

 

[grahamp]

I'll put another roll through now it is painted, and make sure to give it a good direct sun experience. If this does not work I will reprint the cover as dense as I can make it.

I don't think there is any reason the film chambers have to be square on the outer sides for photographic purposes, but any remix would have to produce matching spool holders and cover. Injection molding or pressed panels tend to favour curved design. FDM prints tend to favour square design. The process influences the design and vice versa.

I printed the cover on an old build plate cover (The QIDI X-Plus uses magnetic plates on the heated bed) which put in some random texture on the cover surface. I have some leather-like book covering material that would look nice wrapped around the cover. But function first.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I'll put another roll through now it is painted, and make sure to give it a good direct sun experience. If this does not work I will reprint the cover as dense as I can make it.

I don't think there is any reason the film chambers have to be square on the outer sides for photographic purposes, but any remix would have to produce matching spool holders and cover. Injection molding or pressed panels tend to favour curved design. FDM prints tend to favour square design. The process influences the design and vice versa.

I printed the cover on an old build plate cover (The QIDI X-Plus uses magnetic plates on the heated bed) which put in some random texture on the cover surface. I have some leather-like book covering material that would look nice wrapped around the cover. But function first.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4874441
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4744863

If the designer likes curves, and their 3D CAD software cooperates, this need not be the case. Ergonomics don't care how the part is made.

BTW, Cura Slicer apparently has a setting to put a "pebbled" texture on the surface of a part -- though I haven't looked for it, I've seen a YouTube video thumbnail showing it...

 

[grahamp]

I was thinking of the issues with bridging spaces with FDM systems tending to influence the design/construction. It can certainly be done with curves. Do you print the cover on your film splitter as shown with supports, or upside down?

 

[titrisol]

Or you can spray some of that rubberized black paint (plastidip or flexseal)
Which will seal most pores and ghelp with light tightness and ease of grip

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4874441
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4744863

If the designer likes curves, and their 3D CAD software cooperates, this need not be the case. Ergonomics don't care how the part is made.

BTW, Cura Slicer apparently has a setting to put a "pebbled" texture on the surface of a part -- though I haven't looked for it, I've seen a YouTube video thumbnail showing it...

 

[grat]

My current 3D printer, which I built about 7 years ago, has slowly morphed into a bit of a frankestein with "quirks". I need to tear it down and rebuild it. I've been waiting on a new printer to arrive since March, and I've just been told it should ship next week. One of the first things I intend to do is finish my Kraken (6x12), and then work on a 6x12 back-- ideally with gates so I can use it as a 6x9 as well.

In a perfect world, it would be a 6x12 back that could be mounted on a plate to use with 4x5, or form the back of a 6x12 handheld camera. But that's a bit ambitious.

 

[Donald Qualls]

In a perfect world, it would be a 6x12 back that could be mounted on a plate to use with 4x5

Printing a Graflok compatible plate seems trivial (says the guy who hasn't yet tried it). Making it work with an existing roll back print design might be a bit harder, though the slicer setting "union overlapping solids" suggests you can just overlay the base of any roll back with the 4x5 Graflok plate and the slicer will combine them into one part.

 

[grat]

I have a horseman 6x9 back (for 4x5), and looking at it closely it looks like the 4x5 graflok plate screws onto the main body, and provides one side of the dark slide. My assumption (since I don't have a 6x9 for 2x3) is that there's a 2x3 graflok compatible plate that can be used in it's place.

So the idea is a from-scratch design (based on ekech's work, as well as the Dayi / Shen-Hao backs, and maybe even the old Rada designs) that could be adapted to both a 4x5 camera via graflok-style plate, and directly attached to a 6x12 "snapshot" camera, similar to the Kraken, only with a detachable back + darkslide.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Seems like a good plan. I'd probably make the 6x9 back compatible with a 2x3 Graflok, too (later Mamiya Press, Century Graphics, etc. use that attachment standard) and design your Kraken-alike to take Graflok accessories, which would then include film backs made for Mamiya Press and RB systems, as well as Graflex roll holders etc. If it accepts a detachable plate, it's simple enough to make plates in both sizes.

 

[grat]

True. But I have a mini Speed Graphic, with 6x9 back, 2 grafmatics, and a stack of double-sided holders. So I'm kinda set for the 6x9 on 2x3 for now.

 

[ProfessorC1983]

Printing a Graflok compatible plate seems trivial (says the guy who hasn't yet tried it).

As a guy who has tried it, I concur.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Okay, here's something I'm starting to work on.

I found a design on Thingiverse for a printable bulk loader, a clone of a Lloyd. It takes a standard 30.3 m (100 ft.) bulk roll, has a light tight (add your own felt) passage for the film and a light tight hatch and crank, along with using a simple "count the turns" like the commercial ones to determine how many frames are loaded (30 turns for 36 frames, all the way down to 15 turns for 12 frames, IIRC). It'll print on nearly any so-called "medium format" 3D printer, and according to Cura Slicer has a good bit of room to spare on the build plate of my Ender 3.

I want to "remix" the design by expanding the film chamber to accept a 400 foot (122 m) cine roll. I found a PDF that gives the core or spool types and dimensions for cine rolled films, and apparently the only choice ever seen on 400 foot rolls of 35mm is the same core we usually see in our 100 foot bulk rolls -- a plastic core with two inch O.D. and one inch I.D. (camera spools are only ever seen on 100 foot rolls). That means I only need to expand the diameter of the film chamber in the Lloyd loader clone to be large enough to accept the larger film roll, and my calculation (based on 7 mil total film thickness) indicates the roll should be just under six inches diameter -- so allowing a chamber diameter of 6.5 inches should give plenty of tolerance.

And that means I ought to still be able to (just) fit the expanded main body of the loader (and the enlarged lid, of course) onto the 235 x 235 mm build plate of my printer. Which in turn means that instead of having to search eBay for months or longer in order to pay a collector's item price for one of the seemingly rare bulk loaders that take a 400 foot roll, I can spend some spare time redesigning two parts of an existing design, and a couple days printing those parts with no more than about $10 worth of filament -- and be able to buy Vision3 or 5222 film on the longer rolls and either save a bunch of bucks compared to buying these films already loaded for 35mm still cameras, or actually be able to resell the film in standard cassettes at a significant profit. And if I need a second such loader, all it costs is filament and machine time after the design work is done for the first one.

Stuff like this is why I've wanted a 3D printer since they used metal powder and a laser that cost more than a new Bentley (not even counting the CNC setup to steer it). With them costing less than a pair of tires now, anything I can download files for or design myself, and weighs less than a couple ounces in plastic, might as well be free.

 

[grat]

Hrm. I thought I posted this the other day. Maybe I'm lacking in sleep.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/tool/400ft-roll-film-bulk-loader

 

[Donald Qualls]

Hrm. I thought I posted this the other day. Maybe I'm lacking in sleep.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/tool/400ft-roll-film-bulk-loader

I don't recall seeing it, but that will save me the time to design one myself or remix the 100 foot one from Thingiverse. Even with paying for the download (Cults lets users do that, and most do, where Thingiverse uses "tip the designer") that's still *way* ahead of trying to find one to buy. Now I just need to straighten out my printer rebooting several hours into a large print (likely a firmware issue, if it's not a power condition problem -- the new UPS will tell me which it is).

 

[titrisol]

That sound like an overheating problem
I had to replace the board-cooling fan a few months after buying an Ender Printer

Now I just need to straighten out my printer rebooting several hours into a large print (likely a firmware issue, if it's not a power condition problem -- the new UPS will tell me which it is).

 

[Donald Qualls]

That sound like an overheating problem
I had to replace the board-cooling fan a few months after buying an Ender Printer

Also a possibility, though I haven't notice heat coming out of the power supply. The mainboard cooling fan sucks in, rather than blowing out, however, so it's harder to tell if it's running hot.

 

[4season]

This is pretty exciting stuff! I was given a Monoprice Delta Mini awhile back, have mostly used it to print objects that others have designed, but have begun to learn the basics of FreeCAD. The MPDM is a compact printer, but for many photo-related objects like lens and body caps, it's not as limiting as it might seem at first glance.

Stuff that I particularly want to print are items where originals are rare, easily lost or broken, or simply can't be gotten at decent prices: Body caps for Alpa cameras, for instance. Or maybe 16mm film cassettes. While on the other hand, I am not going to spend much time printing lens adapters out of brittle PLA when more trustworthy aluminum and brass ones can be had at reasonable cost.

 

[4season]

This black paint ought to be useful for many photo applications, best if sprayed onto areas which don't get handled a lot:
https://www.ko-pro.black/product/musou-black-paint/
I haven't tried it yet, but I have tried "Blackest Black" as sold from UK sellers on Amazon. And when brushed on, it's not bad, very similar to factory anti-reflective paint in SLR mirror boxes and the like.