3D Printing film cameras and parts

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Donald Qualls

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It was suggested on the "What was your last photography related purchase?" thread that my acquisition of a 3D printer with intent to print (among other things) cameras and camera parts warranted the creation of an ongoing thread specific to this activity.

Seems like a sensible idea.

I've been wanting a 3D printer since they cost tens of thousands of dollars. Now you can get a pretty decent one (FDM, Fusion Deposited Material, aka filament type, user upgradable in many ways) for under $200 up front, plus filament. I happened into a sale on Amazon, and got my Creality Ender 3 for $165 with free shipping (they're normally right at $200, or upgraded versions -- newer computer hardware, mostly -- for up to $300+). I added $90+ for five one kilogram spools of various colors of filament, and was "out the door" for well under $300.

There's a learning curve to operating these machines, of course -- starting with the fact they come packed in a box only about six inches deep, for a machine that stands close to two feet tall when fully assembled (including the stock top mounting for the spool holder -- if you have a low workspace, you can change that location with user-printed parts, an ongoing theme in 3D printing). I knew this was coming, however (tax refund), so I'd gone ahead and installed a (free) 3D CAD program and a slicer (software that converts a 3D solid model into a tool path for the printer to deposit melted filament).

Assembly is supposed to take about two hours, and mine ran just about that -- nothing complicated, just a matter of screwing parts together and getting/keeping them correctly aligned, and adjusting a few parts for correct clearances. All the needed tools come in the box with the printer, and there are several excellent videos on YouTube showing and explaining the process for folks who need a little more visual help. A bunch more that cover necessary in-use adjustments and work-arounds for the limitations of the device.

In the end, though, it's a tool -- a tool for making plastic parts (in a number of different materials) to a computer model. I don't think it's a "digital" item, however, because cameras you can make with it will necessarily use film. Rather, it's a tool in the same category as a small lathe or milling machine: a device for making or modifying parts (some of which might be for cameras).

One of my long-term intentions with this is to design and build a proper frame counter for 3D printed 35mm cameras (pinhole or otherwise). The Brancopan has one, so I know it's possible. There will surely be other camera-related items as well -- a frame mask for 35mm film in a 6x7 film back (to help keep the film flat against the 220 pressure plate), along with a drop-in viewfinder mask for my RB67, viewfinder frames for this and that, and on and on...
 

AdrianR

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Hi Donald, in case you haven't found it there's an excellent community for this topic in a Facebook group. Many skilled and knowledgeable members, as well as inexperienced amateurs such as myself. Ethan, designer of the Brancopan, is one, as is Morten of WillTravel. I recommend you join as others may be able to give advice from similar work, perhaps. https://m.facebook.com/groups/632001710485332
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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I generally avoid Facebook -- too many things I don't like, too few I do. Its only advantage for a case like this is that no one has to go through owning, hosting, operating, and maintaining a forum. Its biggest disadvantage is Facebook's license agreement, which (to slightly oversimplify) gives them 100% ownership of anything posted there.
 

titrisol

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Welcome to the 3D club!
I'd recommend you start by printing on PLA+ (PlaPlus) which seems to be pretty good
I have designed a few things for cameras, neg holders, filter/lens wrenches, lens shades, winding levers, etc
I guess you already know Thingiverse to find STLs?
https://www.thingiverse.com/titrisol/designs
I put my good desings in there
 

AdrianR

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I generally avoid Facebook -- too many things I don't like, too few I do. Its only advantage for a case like this is that no one has to go through owning, hosting, operating, and maintaining a forum. Its biggest disadvantage is Facebook's license agreement, which (to slightly oversimplify) gives them 100% ownership of anything posted there.

I know what you mean! Almost the only thing I do on FB is access this and a few other special interest groups. I think this one is viewable for anyone, so may still be a useful risk-free resource to take a weekly look at the new posts, as well as search it for anything useful historically, even if unable to post.

I second titrisol's advice - Thingiverse has a good number of useful photography-related STLs.
 

titrisol

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That group is great! thanks for the recommendation

I know what you mean! Almost the only thing I do on FB is access this and a few other special interest groups. I think this one is viewable for anyone, so may still be a useful risk-free resource to take a weekly look at the new posts, as well as search it for anything useful historically, even if unable to post.

I second titrisol's advice - Thingiverse has a good number of useful photography-related STLs.
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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I guess you already know Thingiverse to find STLs?

My Thingiverse collections run to around a hundred Things already. I've even got a design of my own up there, a film slitter for 120 to 127/16mm or 3x16mm. Designed that while learning FreeCAD.

I could probably print stuff until the house fills up with PLA objects.

At present, I'm using Amazon Basics PLA and getting great results; just got a spool of Overture PETG to print stuff for my partner's aquarium, and the two spools of opaque black (from Atomic Filament) on the way for camera bodies. Also got a bunch of upgrade parts to install -- and still need to print a set of drag chains for the wires to the bed heater and X motor/hot end. I need to get a spool of flexible soon, so I can print new gaskets for my color print drums.
 

AdrianR

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My Thingiverse collections run to around a hundred Things already. I've even got a design of my own up there, a film slitter for 120 to 127/16mm or 3x16mm. Designed that while learning FreeCAD.

I could probably print stuff until the house fills up with PLA objects.

At present, I'm using Amazon Basics PLA and getting great results; just got a spool of Overture PETG to print stuff for my partner's aquarium, and the two spools of opaque black (from Atomic Filament) on the way for camera bodies. Also got a bunch of upgrade parts to install -- and still need to print a set of drag chains for the wires to the bed heater and X motor/hot end. I need to get a spool of flexible soon, so I can print new gaskets for my color print drums.

Wow, a larger STL collector than me? Well done!

Whilst you are at it, I thoroughly recommend this speeddrive mod for the Ender 3 (fitted to my Ender 3 v2) together with the uploader's version of the bullseye duct, especially for improved PETG quality. Will keep you busy for an afternoon, I'm sure! https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3816051 Unless you think you'll need the full 235mm width for future prints, that is. I am also operating my v2 via Klipper firmware running on a Pi 3B. It's a rabbit hole, isn't it??!!
 

titrisol

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Cool beans!
Basic PLA is OK, but PLAPLUS gives you added stregth and is as easy to print as PLA
PETG is great, should work fine in the Ender3; I had to add a 0.1mm Z-offset on mine

I made the mistake of buying and Ender-4 when they came out instead of a 3
The design is flawed and takes a lot to print correctly the 3 is very good though
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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Unless you think you'll need the full 235mm width for future prints, that is.

Highly probable I'll want more than 200 mm X travel at some point. For instance, if I ever find a model (or manage to create one) for the broken inside door handle on my 2015 Fiesta, it's 9+ inches end to end, curved, and has mounting posts. I don't know how much space that direct drive mod loses, it might still work for that -- but I'm not making functional mods (yet), other than clipping the stop foot off the Z axis limit switch so I could get the hot end low enough to tram in the build plate.
 

AdrianR

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Highly probable I'll want more than 200 mm X travel at some point. For instance, if I ever find a model (or manage to create one) for the broken inside door handle on my 2015 Fiesta, it's 9+ inches end to end, curved, and has mounting posts. I don't know how much space that direct drive mod loses, it might still work for that -- but I'm not making functional mods (yet), other than clipping the stop foot off the Z axis limit switch so I could get the hot end low enough to tram in the build plate.

Definitely one to postpone or ignore, then, Donald. XxY drops from 235x235 to 200x235. Obviously there's scope to position a part diagonally if long but narrow. A compromise that won't suit everyone. There are some very good off-the-shelf direct drive mods also incorporating extruder/hot-end upgrades that may have less or nil impact upon the X axis. Probably $100ish assuming you're in the US.
 

warden

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It was suggested on the "What was your last photography related purchase?" thread that my acquisition of a 3D printer with intent to print (among other things) cameras and camera parts warranted the creation of an ongoing thread specific to this activity.

Seems like a sensible idea.

I've been wanting a 3D printer since they cost tens of thousands of dollars. Now you can get a pretty decent one (FDM, Fusion Deposited Material, aka filament type, user upgradable in many ways) for under $200 up front, plus filament. I happened into a sale on Amazon, and got my Creality Ender 3 for $165 with free shipping (they're normally right at $200, or upgraded versions -- newer computer hardware, mostly -- for up to $300+). I added $90+ for five one kilogram spools of various colors of filament, and was "out the door" for well under $300.

There's a learning curve to operating these machines, of course -- starting with the fact they come packed in a box only about six inches deep, for a machine that stands close to two feet tall when fully assembled (including the stock top mounting for the spool holder -- if you have a low workspace, you can change that location with user-printed parts, an ongoing theme in 3D printing). I knew this was coming, however (tax refund), so I'd gone ahead and installed a (free) 3D CAD program and a slicer (software that converts a 3D solid model into a tool path for the printer to deposit melted filament).

Assembly is supposed to take about two hours, and mine ran just about that -- nothing complicated, just a matter of screwing parts together and getting/keeping them correctly aligned, and adjusting a few parts for correct clearances. All the needed tools come in the box with the printer, and there are several excellent videos on YouTube showing and explaining the process for folks who need a little more visual help. A bunch more that cover necessary in-use adjustments and work-arounds for the limitations of the device.

In the end, though, it's a tool -- a tool for making plastic parts (in a number of different materials) to a computer model. I don't think it's a "digital" item, however, because cameras you can make with it will necessarily use film. Rather, it's a tool in the same category as a small lathe or milling machine: a device for making or modifying parts (some of which might be for cameras).

One of my long-term intentions with this is to design and build a proper frame counter for 3D printed 35mm cameras (pinhole or otherwise). The Brancopan has one, so I know it's possible. There will surely be other camera-related items as well -- a frame mask for 35mm film in a 6x7 film back (to help keep the film flat against the 220 pressure plate), along with a drop-in viewfinder mask for my RB67, viewfinder frames for this and that, and on and on...
This sounds really cool. Please post pics of your creations when you can!
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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This sounds really cool. Please post pics of your creations when you can!

Will do. I need to print my film slitter as soon as I confirm I can get the magnets that will click it together in the size I made the pockets for.
 

warden

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Will do. I need to print my film slitter as soon as I confirm I can get the magnets that will click it together in the size I made the pockets for.
I'm a product designer and make prototypes but I outsource everything. The prices for new 3D printers are shockingly low to me. It's a real game changer when tech like 3D printing is less expensive than a good lens. Power to the people! :smile:
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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I completely agree. An inventor no longer needs to be a machinist, a woodworker, and and electronic technician -- the latter, plus having a 3D printer and some skill at 3D CAD, will cover the shop stuff. Sure, your final product will be metal or injection molded -- but the prototype can be plastic you printed in your office.
 

grat

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FYI, both the "Overture" Black PETG and the Kodak black PETG (really?!?) are opaque by about the 2nd or 3rd layer at 0.2mm layer height.
 

DMJ

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Cool!
I have been 3d printing for a while but I don’t like CAD software with too many ui elements so I’ve been using openSCAD because I can write code instead of having to draw. Now I also use Blender. My printer is too small for printing a camera but I can manage to print small enclosures for prototypes, holders and misc. parts.
I don’t have Facebook and don’t like it but since someone mentioned the Willtravel camera...has anyone printed or got one?

Martin
 

radiant

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FYI, both the "Overture" Black PETG and the Kodak black PETG (really?!?) are opaque by about the 2nd or 3rd layer at 0.2mm layer height.

Overall it is amazing how many things pass light through. 3D prints seem to be opaque but many times are not. Even the black filament passes light, as you have found out.

Other thing I would like to point out that there are many places where consumer grade 3D printer accuracy isn't enough for camera parts. It is good to understand if you're planning to buy printer and have crazy visions in your head.
 

grat

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Overall it is amazing how many things pass light through. 3D prints seem to be opaque but many times are not. Even the black filament passes light, as you have found out.

Funny how you interpreted what I said completely backwards. Nobody prints anything with less than 3 layers, so for all intents and purposes, both filaments produce opaque parts-- I usually test mine with a 2300 lumen LED light.
Other thing I would like to point out that there are many places where consumer grade 3D printer accuracy isn't enough for camera parts. It is good to understand if you're planning to buy printer and have crazy visions in your head.

Since I've been using a 3D printer for the past 7 years, I'd say I'm reasonably familiar with their limitations.

It's a matter of strength, rigidity, and tolerances. It's one of the reasons the Brancopan, which is essentially just a 35mm camera, is so large. The parts have to be larger for strength purposes. I can't produce a gear that's .25mm thick with teeth strong enough to take any kind of torque, but by the time I hit 2mm, I've got a pretty solid part. Unless your name is Drew, cameras by and large (outside of the lenses) aren't that hyper critical on dimensional accuracy. It needs to be square, and reasonably rigid, but frame counters, for instance, don't require micrometer tolerances-- they require gears that mesh with some degree of precision, rather than accuracy.

While it's true you can 3D print a helicoid for instance, I'd rather have a metal one, because it will be smoother, and more rigid.

3D printing an entire camera is rare-- Printing the body, the grip, knobs, even a film back, isn't too unreasonable, but you're going to need hardware as well.
 

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I made and used a WillTravel 58/65mm body for this year's Pinhole Day. Apart from some adjustment of the film holder rib locating slot, it worked fine. As far as opaqueness is concerned, you have to think about the light path through the walls and the infill pattern, as well as the material itself and any paint being used. Like any project, one needs to understand the capabilities and limitations of the tools and materials.

I have a 90mm Will Travel version using an f8 90mm Super Angulon in progress. I need to finish the focus scale, but initial tests look good. I also made ekech's 6x12 roll film back with a view to using the two together.
 

radiant

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Funny how you interpreted what I said completely backwards. Nobody prints anything with less than 3 layers, so for all intents and purposes, both filaments produce opaque parts-- I usually test mine with a 2300 lumen LED light.

You got me wrong. I mean you have found ways to make things light proof and probably noticed also what isn't light proof. That is what i was referring to.


Since I've been using a 3D printer for the past 7 years, I'd say I'm reasonably familiar with their limitations.

That writing was not directed to you but to others just to enlighten on things. I think new 3D printer owners & potential buyers have pretty high expectations. And this is not to diss 3D printing at all, it has it moments..
 

grat

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You got me wrong. I mean you have found ways to make things light proof and probably noticed also what isn't light proof. That is what i was referring to.

Apologies.

That writing was not directed to you but to others just to enlighten on things. I think new 3D printer owners & potential buyers have pretty high expectations. And this is not to diss 3D printing at all, it has it moments..

That's fair.
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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I just bought a couple spools of a filament that's listed as "deep black opaque" PETG -- it's from Atomic Filament. Soon (it's on my days-long queue of things to print) I'll print an opacity test object I found on Thingiverse and verify their claim. Not cheap stuff; about 50% more than name-brand PLA, but if it's acceptably opaque at three layers, it'll be worth it.
 
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I print black Overture PLA+ (not totally sure what the "plus" signifies as it seems just as brittle as the regular stuff) and find I need 4 layers for complete opacity.

This thread has me thinking, though -- it would be great to assemble a little community around printing cameras/parts, perhaps as a subforum here on Photrio? I find it difficult to wade through Thingiverse listings for what's actually useful from a photographic perspective. It was hard to know what models are worth investing the time/materials in... WillTravel, Standard Cameras 4x5, Dora Goodman (the printable rollfilm back is super intriguing!), etc., and it seems like new options become available every day, far too many to "print and see"...

Additionally I've developed quite a few of my own prototypes (pinhole camera, baby Graflok back, some enlarger negative carriers, lamphouse, beginning to work on a full-blown printable enlarger) in OpenSCAD format so they are easily modifiable/extensible in code (I hate working from STL models for this reason). I'd love to collaborate around those designs as I find I often get stuck on small problems and move on to designing other, simpler parts instead.
 
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