35mm Cameras - Metering stand-outs?

George Mann · Aug 6, 2020

RLangham said:
For positive film I would probably use it as well, but I've never shot any and frankly don't feel a desire to pay slide film prices.

It cost me less to shoot slide film (film + development) than it does negatives (film + development + scanning/printing).

It only cost more for those who need to scan or print it.

RLangham · Aug 6, 2020

George Mann said:
It cost me less to shoot slide film (film + development) than it does negatives (film + development + scanning/printing).

It only cost more for those who need to scan or print it.

I can't buy it directly where I'm at, so I'd have to order it online where it is definitely more expensive than consumer negative film. I develop and scan myself so that's not my concern.

Arthurwg · Aug 6, 2020

Witold said:
I the intent is to shoot film with some "composure" unrelated to DSLR shooting style, why do you need super complex metering in camera? How does one "contemplate" shooting a photograph with idiot proof metering? I see nothing to support this approach.

It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish and what image(s) you are trying to capture. For some pictures, fast and easy is best. For other things I use my Hasselblad, 4x5 or Pinhole. Plenty of time for "composure".

Paul Howell · Aug 6, 2020

Although I enjoy the process, which is why I shoot a lot of film, I'm more interested in find the shot, visualizing the shot, the capashooting is just a process, then the darkroom work

George Mann said:
It cost me less to shoot slide film (film + development) than it does negatives (film + development + scanning/printing).

It only cost more for those who need to scan or print it.

Unless a requirement for an assignment I did shoot much slide film, slide film is designed for projection not printing. Consumers thought that because magazines including the Nat Geo use slide film it was superior, and it was, as long it for the printing process or projection To get a really good print from slide film needed to print using dye transfer process, really expensive or make a internegative, Cibachrome, needed a mask. Pro level color film was much better at a print.

Deleted member 88956 · Aug 7, 2020

Arthurwg said:
It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish and what image(s) you are trying to capture. For some pictures, fast and easy is best. For other things I use my Hasselblad, 4x5 or Pinhole. Plenty of time for "composure".

Agreed, accurate metering has its place especially for fast snapping. I was only alluding to "contemplative" shooting which I understand as rather slow & deliberate thought process, including metering. And when camera is claimed or even proven to have so-called super precise metering, it dumbs down how we approach that part. Sometimes its accuracy is exactly opposite of we really hoped for.

Arthurwg · Aug 8, 2020

[QUOTE="Arthurwg, post: 2307615, member: 9445 ] Now that I'm coming to grips with the amazing complexities of my F6, I see that you can't use Matrix with contrast filters. Nikon says filters require Center-Weighted metering.[/QUOTE]

Thinking more about this, I wonder if this is because the F6 added a color factor to the Matrix metering algorithm, which would be thrown off by color filters. In that case Nikon's warning would not apply to other camera's Matrix system.

pentaxuser · Aug 8, 2020

Pioneer said:
Nikon metering is a joke. It will give you a different exposure every time you use it. But, if that is what you want, by all means go for it.

IMHO the only metered 35mm worth owning is the Pentax LX. No other camera can meter like the LX. Other than that one camera everyone else would be far better off using a handheld meter.

I do so hate it when a poster gives the consensus view and beats around the bush instead of giving us a straight unequivocal answer I suspect this may be a "minority of one report" in this thread

pentaxuser

Pioneer · Aug 8, 2020

pentaxuser said:
I do so hate it when a poster gives the consensus view and beats around the bush instead of giving us a straight unequivocal answer I suspect this may be a "minority of one report" in this thread

pentaxuser

Yeah. With all the Nikon Fanboys around here you may be right.

RLangham · Aug 9, 2020

Pioneer said:
Yeah. With all the Nikon Fanboys around here you may be right.

I'm just so curious what you mean though. I have never had a bad experience with early Nikon metering. The F2SB's silicon blue metering diodes respond faster than CDS, give a strong centerweighting that leads to a very defined central zone. Used intelligently, you can get very contrasty, easy-to-print negatives.

I'm not knocking the Pentax LX, since I do like Pentax's aperture priority cameras, but is it really better than Nikon hardware as far as metering goes?

Les Sarile · Aug 9, 2020

As far as metering goes, any intelligent person can learn to work within it's capabilities. But as far as aperture priority mode is concerned, there is no camera that can hang with the Pentax LX as it is the only camera ever (past or present by any brand or model) that will autoexpose a scene for as long as it takes (or batteries die) - all the while monitoring the scene in real time, and adjusting exposure accordingly.

Most all aperture priority capable cameras can autoexpose a typical daylight scene. This one using the LX with Lomography 100 film.

Most can even autoexpose a scene seconds long. This one on Fuji RVP50.

However, autoexposing scenes measuring minutes long and you eliminate practically all cameras. This one >10 minutes on Kodak Portra 800.

For autoexposures lasting more than 40 minutes, I am not aware of any other camera that can do this besides the LX. I don't believe you can even do this using an external meter. This one using Kodak Ektar 100.

For this scene - taken using Kodak Gold 100 with the LX in aperture priority mode, I pressed the shutter button about 9pm and sometime after 3am it finished.

One drawback to making these long autoexposures is that there are no external cues that let you know when the exposure is completed. You would have to peek at the viewfinder from time to time to see if it has opened yet which can be very annoying on very long exposures. Fortunately, the LX also provides help for this as the x-sync terminal closes when the shutter is open and opens when the exposure is completed. So I devised a simple LED/battery arrangement that lights up when the shutter is open and turns off when it is done.

Of course this point would all be moot if you can't critically focus in these extremely dark scenes. This is where the LX's biggest and brightest veiwfinder comes in real handy.

Would you agree that this metering feature makes the Pentax LX a clear standout?

RLangham · Aug 9, 2020

Les Sarile said:
As far as metering goes, any intelligent person can learn to work within it's capabilities. But as far as aperture priority mode is concerned, there is no camera that can hang with the Pentax LX as it is the only camera ever (past or present by any brand or model) that will autoexpose a scene for as long as it takes (or batteries die) - all the while monitoring the scene in real time, and adjusting exposure accordingly.

Most all aperture priority capable cameras can autoexpose a typical daylight scene. This one using the LX with Lomography 100 film.

Most can even autoexpose a scene seconds long. This one on Fuji RVP50.

However, autoexposing scenes measuring minutes long and you eliminate practically all cameras. This one >10 minutes on Kodak Portra 800.

For autoexposures lasting more than 40 minutes, I am not aware of any other camera that can do this besides the LX. I don't believe you can even do this using an external meter. This one using Kodak Ektar 100.

For this scene - taken using Kodak Gold 100 with the LX in aperture priority mode, I pressed the shutter button about 9pm and sometime after 3am it finished.

One drawback to making these long autoexposures is that there are no external cues that let you know when the exposure is completed. You would have to peek at the viewfinder from time to time to see if it has opened yet which can be very annoying on very long exposures. Fortunately, the LX also provides help for this as the x-sync terminal closes when the shutter is open and opens when the exposure is completed. So I devised a simple LED/battery arrangement that lights up when the shutter is open and turns off when it is done.

Of course this point would all be moot if you can't critically focus in these extremely dark scenes. This is where the LX's biggest and brightest veiwfinder comes in real handy.

Would you agree that this metering feature makes the Pentax LX a clear standout?

Don't some of the Olympus OM series also meter in this way?

MattKing · Aug 9, 2020

RLangham said:
Don't some of the Olympus OM series also meter in this way?

Yes, but they are intentionally time limited.
I expect that the limitation was included to deal with the problem of exhausting the batteries by unintentionally releasing the shutter when the lens cap is still on and/or the camera is still in its case or bag.
It would have been nice if Olympus had included a special, switchable, extra-long exposure mode in order to defeat that limit when needed.

Les Sarile · Aug 9, 2020

RLangham said:
Don't some of the Olympus OM series also meter in this way?

John Hermanson posted details about the OM2 metering at http://www.zuiko.com/web_5__20150924_032.htm. Up to 19 minutes but subject to a lot of caveats.
All the aperture capable cameras Ive tested include: Canons all max at 30 seconds, Minoltas vary in many seconds, Nikons up to minutes but inconsistent and other Pentax models vary in many seconds.

Les Sarile · Aug 9, 2020

Here is about a 20 minute aperture priority shot I took on Kodak Ektar 100.

Just to show how dark this scene was, here is what it looked like on my Android phone. I took this shot from behind the LX and you can see the LED I had drapped in back on the right lower side is still on as the LX is still autoexposing . . .

Pioneer · Aug 12, 2020

Les's point on the LX capabilities is correct. I have taken some long exposures when it was dark enough that it was actually difficult to get the scene correctly frames without using a flashlight.

I have nothing at all against any of the other cameras. I have used Olympus, Minolta, Canon, Nikon and many others. My favorite at the time really depends on what type of print I am thinking of. Many cameras bring something special to the table that may be difficult to get with another camera, usually in the form of lenses. Sometimes the Contarex and Contaflex cameras bring some awesome capability to the table, just not necessarily their metering ability, though within limitations it works just fine.

Metering is important, but it is really only one part of the equation. If metering will make or break a print for me, I will usually fall back on the LX just because it has always metered so reliably for me when the chips were down. But that is just me. I think everyone probably has one of those cameras that always seems to bring home the exposure you had envisioned when you pressed the shutter.

Rather than some golden camera with metering that cannot fail, I think this trust is the result of long experience that comes with using one camera long enough to get really comfortable with it.

35mm Cameras - Metering stand-outs?

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