35mm & 120 B&W Film and Self-Develop Help

[Rinthe]

So I suddenly have this urge of wanting to develop my own black and white film.

I shot in both 35mm and 120 formats. I did some research and read that it's good to stick with one film/developer and get better at developing that specific film. I've only used ilford hp5 plus on my 35mm camera and like the results. so i'm thinking i'll just get hp5 plus for both 35mm and 120 format? are there any differences between the hp5 plus film in 35mm and 120 format?

As for developing, i want to get chemicals that could be used to develop both 35mm and 120 film. So any suggestions of 35mm/120 film and developer combination would be helpful! I've never done this before, so give me as much info as possible thanks!!

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

I'd suggest you start with something fairly standard and reasonable simple such as Ilford ID11 or Kodak D76. There are usually slight differences between 35mm and 120 versions of any film, mainly that the base thickness can be different, and in some films, the suggested developing times are even slightly different.

 

[Rinthe]

if i decide to use hp5 plus in both 35mm and 120 format, would it be better to use Ilford ID11 since its by the same company? or does it make any differences?

 

[Mick Fagan]

Generally speaking it will not make much difference, if at all, if you use either developer.

There will be a very, very slight difference between the developers, but I don't believe either I or you, would be able to tell the difference.

I presume you can purchase the Ilford film and Ilford chemicals from the same place, if so, it would make sense to purchase Ilford chemicals.

Mick.

 

[Rinthe]

ok cool. what stop bath and fixer should i get? and also any recommendation on canister/reel and dark bag?

 

[Anon Ymous]

ok cool. what stop bath and fixer should i get? and also any recommendation on canister/reel and dark bag?

Any stop bath and fixer will do, you don't need to buy specific brands/types, but it's better to buy a rapid non-hardening fixer though. Rapid fixers, as the name implies, will fix film quicker than plain ones. You don't need hardening fixer because today's films are adequately hardened and wash times will also be shorter, thus saving time and water. I use Ilford Rapid fixer and I'm pleased with it.

Regarding tanks/reels, you're going to get many different answers. Some will say that plastic ones are fine, some will say that you really need to buy metal. Both have their pros and cons. A beginner will find plastic reels easier to load. If you buy plastic, make sure that the reels are bone dry before trying to load film. Otherwise, you will have problems. It's also a good idea to cut the leader of the film and round the edges a bit. Plastic reels can handle different film formats; you just split them and adjust the width. That's a nice characteristic; metal ones are fixed and you need to buy different reels for different formats. Metal reels are also expensive compared to plastic. Both types can last long if you take care of them. If you buy plastic, I'd propose Paterson or Jobo. My personal preference is Jobo; a 1520 tank will be fine for a start. It can handle 2 135, or 2 120 films.

Finally, you don't need a dark bag, provided that you have a place that can be blacked out. I don't have one.

 

[Mick Fagan]

I agree with Anon Ymous regarding tanks and reels. I have used both Patterson and Jobo, I have both, but I prefer and almost always use the Jobo tanks and reels.

I would also suggest you get some wetting agent, as we are so to speak, sticking with Ilford, I would suggest Ilfotol wetting agent.

Buy the smallest bottle you can, it should literally last you decades. The idea is that you give your films a final dip into the wetting agent, then pull them out, hold at an angle to allow the excess fluid to run off, then hang in as dust free an environment that you can find. A shower recess in a bathroom, is a good place.

Also, with the wetting agent, take the films off the reel before placing in the wetting agent. You will almost never get the wetting agent out of the reels and this will make further usage of this reel possibly problematic when used in the developer.

I normally hold a reel horizontally in a lower hand, then with the top hand twist the reel apart, then with the lower hand tip the reel over and the film falls into the wetting agent easily. A short time in the wetting agent is good, I work on around 45 seconds.

Somewhere in the Ilford site I have read that excess time in the wetting agent isn't too good for films. My own experience with one roll that I left in for the length of a phone conversation, agrees with that advice.

For a darkroom to load film, place a chair in a wardrobe, this is your table, sit on an upturned milk crate with a small cushion to relieve the creases in your rear getting painful. Use this at night time with the blinds or curtains drawn and the room lights off, you should find it is perfect.

Mick.

 

[Rinthe]

thank you all for the great info! mick fagan, you said that the wetting agent would last me decades, does that mean i'll be reusing it? do i pour enough wetting agent into the canister to cover all of the film?

 

[Mike Wilde]

No, wetting agent can be saved for a day or two before the water starts to grow some sort of mod or other, but why. I use a few drops pre 500mL or so final rinse.

I would argue if you go with a smaller modern Paterson tank for a couple of rolls you could just use a generous quanity of water as a rinse after the developer and skip theneed to buy another (inexpensive) component - the stop bath. These tanks allow solutions out and in so fast with their funnel top design.

For fixer, do save that between uses. Read on ts capacity; mst fixers are fine for over a dozen films per litre, and with the silver that they dissovle, as not the nicest thing to put down the drain.

 

[hvandam2]

I started B&W film developing about 6 months ago, using ilford DDX, indicator stop bath, rapid fixer, and the wetting agent from Kokak. Both 25mm and 120. A nice short tutorial on Ilford's web site: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=26

Jason Brunner, another APUG'er, has a DVD on the darkroom. Look on youtube for an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P9bNcBE_Hc

Ilford hp5 is what I've developed so far, with very good results. Practice loading film on the reel several times before you go do load a good roll.

Enjoy and Good Luck!
Howard

 

[Rinthe]

so do i dilute the wetting agent with water or something? if so, what ratio? also what if the developer is too cold? how do i get it to the right temp?

oh and where's a good place to get these chemicals?

 

[Chazzy]

so do i dilute the wetting agent with water or something? if so, what ratio? also what if the developer is too cold? how do i get it to the right temp?

oh and where's a good place to get these chemicals?

Rinthe, if you want suggestions about where to obtain darkroom chemicals, it would be helpful if you would tell us what country you are in.

 

[Rinthe]

ops, my bad. im in californica, US

 

[MattKing]

The dilution instructions for the chemistry will come with the chemistry. In most cases, they will also be available from the manufacturer's website.

As for chemistry sources, you might want to consider Freestyle, an APUG sponsor:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/c30-Black-and-White-Chemicals

Matt

 

[Rinthe]

ok so im looking to buy these equipments/chemicals now

I'm looking at: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/55152...Reel-Tank-Adjustable-35mm-120-220?cat_id=1603
a little confused about how it says Jobo Uni-Tank Two - 35mm/One -120 Reel Tank (Adjustable 35mm/120/220 included), so i could develop 2 rolls of 35mm or 1 roll of 120 right? but then it says Tip: The plastic film developing reel (included) will accept 2 - 120 size rolls. (only one reel is included with tank). so can it develop 1 or 2 rolls of 120 film?

and then for empty bottles: im looking at http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5141-Arista-Air-Evac-Bottle-1-Liter?cat_id=1603
is 1 liter enough or do i need 2 liter? how many do i need?

 

[MattKing]

The listing for the tank is a little confusing.

Each Jobo reel has enough room to load two 120 rolls, one after the other. The first loaded roll ends up closer to the centre of the (spiral) reel, and the second ends up closer to the outer edge.

As far as the bottles go, I and a few others here don't recommend those expandable bottles. They are incredibly difficult to clean, and many of them leak air.

I'd recommend plastic soda or juice bottles. It is a good idea to have several sizes.

Matt

 

[Mick Fagan]

Rinthe, the Jobo system is confusing at first, but is really simple and logical.

The 1500 series tanks are numbered using 35mm film reels as a guide. Reels are numberered 551501 according to the website your link went to.

A 1510 tank, holds one reel and can only develop 35mm film.

A 1520 tank can hold two reels, it can develop two 35mm films on two reels and two 120 films on one reel.

The 1530 extension kit is a tube that will attach to your 1520 or 1510 tank. This will add the space for three 35mm reels. The 1530 extension tank comes with a plastic centre core which attaches to the centre core of the 1520 tank (or 1510 tank).

If you attach this to your 1520 tank, then you can do 5 rolls of 35mm film and four rolls (only room for two reels I think) of 120 film.

A very popular combination is the 1510 tank and the 1530 extension module. This is called the 1540 tank and allows 4 rolls of 35mm film and 4 rolls of 120 film, with an absolute minimum of chemical usage.

If you do use a wetting agent with films, which I suggest you do. Then I would humbly suggest that you never allow the wetting agent anywhere near your developing tanks, or reels.

I use a 1 litre kitchen jug, with 600ml of wetting agent. this is enough to easily cover a single 120 film on it's side.

Wetting agent is basically a soapy like solution designed to allow water to run off the film when it is drying. If it is allowed to run through reels, it usually suds or foams up slightly, when it drys, it sticks to the plastic of the reels and tank. You literally can soak your tank and reels for days or weeks before you get rid of the wetting agent.

Mick.

 

[Rinthe]

thanks for all the info. I dont know if i need to develop 4 rolls at a time. maybe just 1 or 2 rolls at a time is enough? that way i don't have to way until i shoot 4 rolls to develop. does it take more chemical if i just develop 1 or 2 rolls at a time?

 

[Mick Fagan]

Rinthe, using a 1520 tank, you will require 500ml of solution for either 1 roll or 2 rolls.

Both 120 films go onto the same reel, the film sits sideways in the tank, therefore the amount of solution required to cover one or two rolls is the same.

You mix up a 1 litre packet of ID11 and you have 1 litre of stock solution.

Using the developer at a 1+1 dilution, which is 250ml of stock solution and 250ml of fresh water from your tap, to make 500ml of working solution.

Once you have used this developer at 1+1 dilution, you have to discard it. This is called one shot developing. It may sound wasteful, and in some ways it is, but the aim is consistency, which is something at this early stage I would suggest you do.

You can use the developer at full strength, keep it and when you next use it, you develop slightly longer to make up for the fact it is partially used. There should be a chart either on the Ilford site or with the chemicals, to get the time increase. I don't think this is a good thing to do for someone who is fiddling on their own and desperately learning all of the other things that go with film developing. However your call!

Mick.

 

[Sjixxxy]

so do i dilute the wetting agent with water or something?

Simplify and get some Edwal LFN No storage or mixing needed outside of that little squeeze bottle it comes in. Just cover your film with distilled water after the wash and add a drop. No slime or algae to worry about with old solutions. And don't let the size fool you. It took me five years to go through a single 3/4th oz bottle of the stuff.

 

[George Collier]

Hi Rinthe - one other suggestion - I would recommend to you using an alkaline fixer, such as TF4 (I think TF5 is out now), which doesn't require (as in "don't use with") an acid stop bath. Just follow the mixing and using instructions about a good water rinse. It's fast, has great capacity, and washes out easily, so no clearing agent is need either. Works well for paper too, at the same dilution. Freestyle has it.

 

[Rinthe]

what's the difference between using stop bath and not using stop bath? isn't it better to use a stop bath?

 

[Mick Fagan]

Rinthe, you may get many differing replies regarding stop bath with film development.

I have successfully used just a water rinse after developing film quite often, usually when out bush and developing in a campsite.

When you finish developing, and I presume you will be developing to a precise time, then it is best to stop development at a precise time, this is done using a stop bath.

You can do a rinse with water, then immediately pour in fixer, which will stop development very quickly, seconds actually. Or you can do it without a water rinse and just throw in fixer. This practice does have the downside of exhausting the fixer more quickly though.

As fixer can be re-used a fair bit before exhaustion, and, it is relatively expensive, I would suggest you use a stop bath.

If you have Acetic acid, then you can make your own stop bath by making a 2% solution.

I myself use almost always a 2% solution stop bath when developing either film or paper (prints).

Mick.

 

[MattKing]

I prefer using an acid stop bath because it stops development almost immediately, it helps standardize my process, and it helps preserve the capacity of my fixer.

I am not a chemist, but one thing I have learned about photographic chemistry is that control of pH is very important!

I think PE has posted that you can even use acid stop with alkaline or neutral fixers, because they tend to be very well buffered.

The only disadvantage of using acid stop with most commonly available films is that you have one additional chemical to deal with.

Matt