250 frame film backs

Philippe-Georges · Sep 20, 2021

AgX said:
For this non-SLR register-cameras were used. Robot for instance at last had backs that rather resembled cine-camera magazines. In any case no magazine comes to my mind that resembled the longfilm backs used at SLRs.

Perhaps in Germany, but over here I saw Nikons (F2) mounted on the dashboard just behind the windshield of the police cars connected to the radar system mounted on the bumper of the car.

AgX · Sep 20, 2021

Great! Effluent Belgium.

(Though a Robot with magazine was not cheap either. And within the whole package, even with largely modified car, the price of a camera was not a matter. Rather longevity. And the question is whether the SLR finder was necessary.)

But there was a swiss manufacturer who incorporated a standard SLR in his speeding-control systems, but with proprietary box-style backs.
And he had one model of such system where not an SLR but a Agfa motordrive register-camera was incorporated but indeed with a 450exp Agfa magazine that looked like one of "ours".

So there were more variants than I thought. But as far as I can see the cameras for attented use typically just took type 135 film, and that was the reason resp. Agfa film was also sold (non-retail) in this conversion.

Nokton48 · Sep 20, 2021

Fred DeVan was a real interesting and friendly guy I met online 20+ years ago. He worked for Time-Life and was an award winning photographer and Art Director. He photographed for LIFE Sly Stone's wedding in Madison Square Garden in NYC. He set up four motoized Minolta SRM's with Intervalometers (to photograph every few seconds from up in the rafters. Assistants reloaded each camera as necessary. Would be interesting to see the final photo. Minolta's Pros offered a lot of technical support and equipment to pull that shoot off.

Sooner or later I'll send that back ^^^ in for a CLA. It came to me new in the box and never used. The Son of the owner said his Dad was a Newspaper Photographer in Belfast and he won it for first prize in a photo contest over there. I remember it was a photo of a boxing competition. Anyways he wanted to only sell it to someone who would promise to use it and not sell it.

benjiboy · Sep 20, 2021

AgX said:
Is that so? I mean, you sold that stuff.
I never saw a photographer with such back, nor (more important) do I remember having seen such on tv or press photos accidentially depicting press photographers at work.

I sold the Canon Motor Drive FN, I never owned the bulk film back.

CMoore · Sep 20, 2021

Nokton48 said:
Fred DeVan was a real interesting and friendly guy I met online 20+ years ago. He worked for Time-Life and was an award winning photographer and Art Director. He photographed for LIFE Sly Stone's wedding in Madison Square Garden in NYC. He set up four motoized Minolta SRM's with Intervalometers (to photograph every few seconds from up in the rafters. Assistants reloaded each camera as necessary. Would be interesting to see the final photo. Minolta's Pros offered a lot of technical support and equipment to pull that shoot off.

Sooner or later I'll send that back ^^^ in for a CLA. It came to me new in the box and never used. The Son of the owner said his Dad was a Newspaper Photographer in Belfast and he won it for first prize in a photo contest over there. I remember it was a photo of a boxing competition. Anyways he wanted to only sell it to someone who would promise to use it and not sell it.

THAT is fascinating..!!!
Would love to see pictures. Maybe if we all do a search.........................

Mackinaw · Sep 20, 2021

I had the chance to buy a mint 250 exposure back for the original Canon F-1 a few years back, but passed. I don't know how I'd use it, much less how I'd process that much film.

Jim B.

benjiboy · Sep 20, 2021

Mackinaw said:
I had the chance to buy a mint 250 exposure back for the original Canon F-1 a few years back, but passed. I don't know how I'd use it, much less how I'd process that much film.

Jim B.

I would never have any use for one for my F1s either, and I'm trying to de-clutter my little house of the accumulated junk I've collected in the thirty-two years I've lived here.

Bronson Dugnutt · Sep 20, 2021

A Morse G3 or Lomo spiral could be used to process lengths of 135 from such a back.

Slap one on an F5 and you'd have the world's most awkward 8fps 35mm cine camera

gordrob · Sep 20, 2021

I had a Spotmatic with a 250 frame back that I used in the 70s and 80s. Processing 250 frames was quite a chore and had to get the Nikor large processing tanks and loader . I ended up shootiView attachment 285801ng about 100 frame loads, about 15' of film because it was easier to load the shorter length into a smaller processing reel and tank. The Spotmatic Set 250 came in a slick briefcase that held the camera with motor drive, 250 back, grip and power supply. There was a lot of accessories available as well. When I moved to the Canon F1N I got the 100 frame back for it and with the motor drive and it is definitely heavy.

AgX · Sep 21, 2021

AgX said:
Concerning the use:
How many photos you know showing these backs in actual use?
I assume they mostly went into the hidden world of science and R&D.

So if you can show photos of them being actually used in normal press work (best even together with colleagues using standard backs) that would be fine.

Actually I have not even come across photos were at medium format a Cine-Rollex back was used for press work...

Paul Howell · Sep 21, 2021

gordrob said:
I had a Spotmatic with a 250 frame back that I used in the 70s and 80s. Processing 250 frames was quite a chore and had to get the Nikor large processing tanks and loader . I ended up shootiView attachment 285801ng about 100 frame loads, about 15' of film because it was easier to load the shorter length into a smaller processing reel and tank. The Spotmatic Set 250 came in a slick briefcase that held the camera with motor drive, 250 back, grip and power supply. There was a lot of accessories available as well. When I moved to the Canon F1N I got the 100 frame back for it and with the motor drive and it is definitely heavy.

What did you shoot with it?

gordrob · Sep 21, 2021

I used it a lot for wildlife photos, mostly birds. It was on a tripod a lot of the time . Not a good choice for using handheld for any length of time.

Paul Howell · Sep 22, 2021

Was the F3 the last 250 exposure back Nikon made?

Kodachromeguy · Sep 22, 2021

Some of you may remember that Ilford made a thin base film by which a 72 exposure load could fit in a standard size film cassette. But the camera needed a different back. As far as I can remember, only Leica sold a thin film back for their R4 body. Did Nikon or Canon also offer this special back?

AgX · Sep 22, 2021

Such special back would mean a pressure plate with a protrusion between the rails.
Never heard of such. And for the R4 as alternative back only the data-back exists.

Kodachromeguy · Sep 22, 2021

We have already discussed the 72 film cassette here on Photrio:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/interesting-hp5-with-72-exp-a-roll.147517/

Dirb9 · Sep 22, 2021

Paul Howell said:
Was the F3 the last 250 exposure back Nikon made?

The F4 had the MF-24: https://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf4/filmbacks/index1.htm. B&H had one in stock well past it being discontinued, I saw it on their site around 2005, IIRC it was about $1400.
The MF-24 and the EB-90 (100 exposure) for the Maxxum 9000 were the only bulk backs made for autofocus SLRs, I believe.
.

AgX · Sep 22, 2021

Kodachromeguy said:
We have already discussed the 72 film cassette here on Photrio.

But already then I did not know of such back, nor did I find a trace of such.
If someone could come up with such...

Those who only used such film could have milled down the rails a bit for ease of mind.

Paul Howell · Sep 22, 2021

Dirb9 said:
The F4 had the MF-24: https://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf4/filmbacks/index1.htm. B&H had one in stock well past it being discontinued, I saw it on their site around 2005, IIRC it was about $1400.
The MF-24 and the EB-90 (100 exposure) for the Maxxum 9000 were the only bulk backs made for autofocus SLRs, I believe.
.

I ahve the EB90, much more compact then the 250 backs, maybe I'll load it up and give a spin.

Kodachromeguy · Sep 22, 2021

Leica might have planned to supply a 250 back for their R4. According to the Leica Accessory Guide, Hove Foto Books, 1984, page 32:

"14324 - Large capacity film chamber - R4. Not yet available at time of going to press."

I do not recall ever seeing this 250 back for the R series. Also, I could not find a part number for the special 72-exp Ilford film back, but I do recall it being advertised in the early 1980s.

swchris · Sep 23, 2021

Moving this thread to a slightly different direction: How would I dry this film, 250 exposures?

I think I can load it, shoot it, load it to the development drum, develop it .. but then?

Currently I'm drying the films by hanging in the bathroom. Works well for 135/36 and 120. But what can I do with a 250 exps long 135? Cut it into pieces 36 exps or so and continue as usual? Or is there some other good idea?

Paul Howell · Sep 23, 2021

I would cut into 36 Ex strips. Although I have not used a 250 back, when I worked for UPI in the 70s they had a Versamate film processor, the feed was in a dark room the finished film was dry when it exited under room lights, a couple of techs would handle the film and cut it into strips.

Mick Fagan · Sep 24, 2021

swchris said:
Moving this thread to a slightly different direction: How would I dry this film, 250 exposures?

I think I can load it, shoot it, load it to the development drum, develop it .. but then?

Currently I'm drying the films by hanging in the bathroom. Works well for 135/36 and 120. But what can I do with a 250 exps long 135? Cut it into pieces 36 exps or so and continue as usual? Or is there some other good idea?

One method I have used with sprocket holed film, is to make up pairs of film hangers using repurposed paper clips, one on either side, which in turn are held onto a piece of wood using a slim metal plate. Basically you just need enough to hold whatever length of film you are wishing to develop in one piece.

Another alternative, which requires a bit more work to set-up, is to have a number of wheels with an approximate diameter of 80mm to 100mm and a width of around 50mm with a very slight hollow in the centre. The larger the diameter of these wheels, the less stress on the film. By placing these wheels in a line and probably around 300mm to 400mm apart and hung from something, you can loop the film on these. But do ensure the film has the emulsion facing upwards so the rear of the film is touching the rollers. This is a variation of the dip n dunk film processors I used around 30-33 years ago. If you have someone who has a woodturning lathe, they can very easily turn up multiple wheels in an hour or so from almost any wood found around the place. You can seal the wood using almost any kind of house paint (hausfarbe?)

Many houses where you live have a keller, that would be an ideal place to dry film, just ensure no doors are opened during the drying process. Around 36 years ago I was drying some film in a keller in Schwabia and I suddenly heard a rumbling kind of noise, I was then gaily told this was a delivery of coal for the heater. I was mortified, but things turned out alright, there was no coal dust on the films

I at one stage in the tropics, strung lengths of film between trees to dry, if the weather was humid, dust problems were almost non existent.

Mick.

AgX · Sep 24, 2021

Once one managed to process 250 or even 450 expoures long film, drying should be the lesser task:

-) Hang up one end as usual
-) wipe it off for 36 or 50 exposures
-) cut it off, attach a weight
-) start over again with the new loose end.

The only difficulty I see is the lacking space along the short edge of intermediate-cut ends. Here one likely would need either to:
-) attach a surgical forceps to one corner of the rebate
-) make a holder that has hooks to hang the end by its perforations (a U-bent wire ending in two hooks should already work) but one of the commercial clips in addition had resp. hooks
-) use a newer type Jobo clip and hang one perforation hole over one of its pins (critical for tearing off)

[ -) attaching that Jobo clip with both pins laterally at the rebate will give a kink within the film at least with TAC base]

John Salim · Sep 25, 2021

I remember Jack Coote ( manager of tech services at Ilford ) once told me he produced hundreds of 35mm FP4 Reference Negative & Print sets using a Nikon F2 with a 250 exposure back.
All the footage was sent to a motion picture lab for processing ( don't know which ) ... but probably Rank or Technicolor.

John S

250 frame film backs

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