250 frame film backs

CMoore · Sep 19, 2021

I was just starting to read this thread.....
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/minolta-slrs.129443/
.....and on Page #1 our own Nokton48 posted a picture of the beauty below.

It got me wondering.
How common were these 250 film backs.?
Who used them.?
Were they a tool for any certain type of photographer, or did they get put to use by all sorts of shooters.?
Thank You

Mick Fagan · Sep 19, 2021

School photographers in the area where I reside, were the single biggest users. I knew of one business that had somewhere around 5-7 Nikon F3 bodies with these backs specialising in school photography..

They were also used to photograph every single participant as they crossed the finish line in fun runs and marathons.

I've also used my F3 with a few attachments to run continuous 3 fps shooting for television advertisements. Wasn't my 250 frame back, hired from the aforementioned school photographer.

Mick.

CMoore · Sep 19, 2021

That is interesting.
School photography never occurred to me, but it makes sense.

Kodachromeguy · Sep 20, 2021

The lab where I worked used Nikons with 250 frame backs and interval timers to photograph ocean breakwaters. The purpose was to monitor if stones moved during storms. The stones had big X marks painted on them. The cameras, timers, and batteries were in aluminum boxes with a glass panel that had its own windshield wiper.

CMoore · Sep 20, 2021

Kodachromeguy said:
The lab where I worked used Nikons with 250 frame backs and interval timers to photograph ocean breakwaters. The purpose was to monitor if stones moved during storms. The stones had big X marks painted on them. The cameras, timers, and batteries were in aluminum boxes with a glass panel that had its own windshield wiper.

Oh My Gosh...............talked about specialized use.
Although, i guess "Science" would have been a big potential user of the 250.
Time lapse, night photos, long-term observation of a game trail or watering hole, monitoring cracks in the Earth.......A Thousand And One possibilities i suppose.

CMoore · Sep 20, 2021

Does anybody know how 250 frames was arrived at.?

AgX · Sep 20, 2021

Such accessory was also benefitial in yielding goodwill at possible camera buyers who never even would consider using such back, by establishing the image of a "system camera", of being pro.

First such back came out in the 50's, even already with 400 frames (Praktina)

One might ask in which numbers such backs were sold. The Pentacon Super had a 400frames back too. However of the camera itself only 4500 samples were made. Here it seems the back in first instance was made for system completeness, before even knowing whether the camera would be a market success as such.

Ian Grant · Sep 20, 2021

Leica introduced the 250 frame Reporter FF in 1934 so I guess they made the decision to use 17 metre rolls of 35mm film. The bulk back was an intregal part of the camra body, there were some variantions and an electric motor drive was available for some during WWII. .

The firts SLR to use a bulk back was the East German KW Praktina introduced in 1952, the back was an accessory and there were also two different motor drives, one clock work the other electric. The Praktina were the firts true full SLR system with interchangeable finders, a vey wide range of lenses from various German manufacturers, including CZJ, Meyer etc.

Ian

AgX · Sep 20, 2021

Concerning the use:
How many photos you know showing these backs in actual use?
I assume they mostly went into the hidden world of science and R&D.

AgX · Sep 20, 2021

Mick Fagan said:
School photographers in the area where I reside, were the single biggest users. I knew of one business that had somewhere around 5-7 Nikon F3 bodies with these backs specialising in school photography.

Such single-portrait school-photography as such did not even exist over here.

Ian Grant · Sep 20, 2021

AgX, according to the Praktina instruction manuals they took 50ft bulk film that's 17mm, so my assumption the Leica 250mm Reporter used 17m must be wrong it must be shorter.

A 100ft/30metre roll of bulk film gives just under 20 rolls if loaded in normal cassettes, if 30m rolls could be used in a bulkback that would give more like 750 frames per roll, however the Praktina only shoots 450 frames on a roll which would equate to 50ft/17m

So it's likely it was Praktina who introduced the 17mm accessory bulk backs to the professional/consumer market.

Ian

AgX · Sep 20, 2021

100exp = 3.8m (Canon new F1)

250exp. = 10m

400exp. = 17m

750exp. = 30m (Nikon)

(Lengths are roughly)

CMoore · Sep 20, 2021

AgX said:
Such accessory was also benefitial in yielding goodwill at possible camera buyers who never even would consider using such back, by establishing the image of a "system camera", of being pro.

First such back came out in the 50's, even already with 400 frames (Praktina)

One might ask in which numbers such backs were sold. The Pentacon Super had a 400frames back too. However of the camera itself only 4500 samples were made. Here it seems the back in first instance was made for system completeness, before even knowing whether the camera would be a market success as such.

Ian Grant said:
Leica introduced the 250 frame Reporter FF in 1934 so I guess they made the decision to use 17 metre rolls of 35mm film. The bulk back was an intregal part of the camra body, there were some variantions and an electric motor drive was available for some during WWII. .

The firts SLR to use a bulk back was the East German KW Praktina introduced in 1952, the back was an accessory and there were also two different motor drives, one clock work the other electric. The Praktina were the firts true full SLR system with interchangeable finders, a vey wide range of lenses from various German manufacturers, including CZJ, Meyer etc.

Ian

AgX said:
100exp = 3.8m (Canon new F1)

250exp. = 10m

400exp. = 17m

750exp. = 30m (Nikon)

(Lengths are roughly)

Thank You Both
VERY Interesting info in your replies.
Thanks Again

benjiboy · Sep 20, 2021

Sports and action photographers were major users of 250 exposure bulk film backs.

CMoore · Sep 20, 2021

benjiboy said:
Sports and action photographers were major users of 250 exposure bulk film backs.

Yes, they seem like an obvious consumer.
It would be great to seem some photos of them in use at a Cricket Match, or a Football tournament.

Ian Grant · Sep 20, 2021

benjiboy said:
Sports and action photographers were major users of 250 exposure bulk film backs.

They switched from one extreme to the other Some years ago there was a Big Bertha sports camera at the Camera Fair I go to, essentially a large format reflex camera attached to a huge lens the combination was over 3 foot long and would have beenused with plates or cut film. It had been used to shoot Cricket and Football matches in the days when every plate/sheet needed to count.

Ian

benjiboy · Sep 20, 2021

CMoore said:
Yes, they seem like an obvious consumer.
It would be great to seem some photos of them in use at a Cricket Match, or a Football tournament.

There were thousands of them at the L.A Olympics, but personally I would hate to have to shoot with my Canon New F1 with motor drive ,250 exposure back and a telephoto lens as these guys had to. I used to have the Canon motor drive FN, but I sold it because it took 12 AA batteries and was just too heavy.

AgX · Sep 20, 2021

benjiboy said:
Sports and action photographers were major users of 250 exposure bulk film backs.

Is that so? I mean, you sold that stuff.
I never saw a photographer with such back, nor (more important) do I remember having seen such on tv or press photos accidentially depicting press photographers at work.

swchris · Sep 20, 2021

I'm having the 250 backs for the Nikon F2 and F3. I wanted to use them to shoot football matches. Since typically the goals were always happening while I was changing film.
I'm also having the Jobo drum to develop 10m without cutting and the almost unobtanium drum loader for it.
I haven't used them but will do so real-soon-now

Renato Tonelli · Sep 20, 2021

Long ago (but not far away) I worked at a photo lab in NYC (FineArt Color Lab) which processed and proofed these long 35mm and 70mm rolls of film. They were all portraits of students. After processing, the film was spooled on a dedicated proofing printer: the film was proofed to a roll of paper as the two ran in contact with each other at a crazy (scary) high speed. If you loaded either the paper or the the film slightly askew, the whole thing would go 'off the rails' and you had to start all over again.
Being the new guy in the lab, it became my job to proof these l-o-n-g rolls of film.

Philippe-Georges · Sep 20, 2021

In analogue times, these camera's where used to record the launching of the Apollo missions at Cape Canaveral by AP, and National Geography used them to observe animals and natural events like volcano eruptions, etc...
The police used them for traffic observation (speed exceeding violations).

John Salim · Sep 20, 2021

We used a 250 back on a Nikon F2 for running off dupes in bulk.
The bigger cassettes were easier to load and use than standard 36exp cassettes
John S

Paul Howell · Sep 20, 2021

I do not recall seeing many, if any, 250 backs in general use with photojournalist, sometime at sporting events, soccer, baseball, track and field, or wildlife. I've seem pictures of a bulk back on a Swiss Alpa attached to mechanical motor drive and remote that was used to cover Shuttle launches. I have a bulk back for my Minolta A9000, bought it just for the heck of it, I have not used it as I don't have a way of processing 100 feet of film other than by scafricing frames. I would need to in the darkroom measure and cut into 36 exposures and process up to 8 rolls in a Unicolor rotary film tank on a motor base. I know Nat Geo, API, and a few of the large papers had one or two in inventory that could be memoed out as needed.

Ian Grant · Sep 20, 2021

I can say in over 50 years of using SLRs I've never seen a 250 back in use, I've seen them secondhand and surprisingly more frequently for Praktina FX cameras.

Ian

AgX · Sep 20, 2021

Philippe-Georges said:
The police used them for traffic observation (speed exceeding violations).

For this non-SLR register-cameras were used. Robot for instance at last had backs that rather resembled cine-camera magazines. In any case no magazine comes to my mind that resembled the longfilm backs used at SLRs.

250 frame film backs

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