220 Film Prices

[MattKing]

I wonder how businesses in China evaluate or consider issues like return on capital and cost of capital?
It is those issues that serve as the biggest barrier against 220 for the potential outside China manufacturers.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I wonder how businesses in China evaluate or consider issues like return on capital and cost of capital?
It is those issues that serve as the biggest barrier against 220 for the potential outside China manufacturers.

If, as has been hinted at, this is subsidized and/or fully supported by the Chinese government because they see film production (for some reason including 220) as critical industry, return on investment, return on equity, etc. mean effectively nothing -- just as they mean almost nothing to the Air Force (though they are important to the contractors that develop and manufacture jet fighters and bombers).

 

[faberryman]

If, as has been hinted at, this is subsidized and/or fully supported by the Chinese government because they see film production (for some reason including 220) as critical industry, return on investment, return on equity, etc. mean effectively nothing -- just as they mean almost nothing to the Air Force (though they are important to the contractors that develop and manufacture jet fighters and bombers).

I just can't think of any reason why China would need 220 film. Corner the market for a few guys on Photrio?

 

[MattKing]

I just can't think of any reason why China would need 220 film. Corner the market for a few guys on Photrio?

I too have been struggling with this.
Although I could see them supporting the high quality printing industry and therefore, indirectly, supporting the ability of paper manufacturers to make really fancy paper (like backing paper and leaders and trailers).

 

[Donald Qualls]

Perhaps state photographers have 220 cameras and the government wants to limit shots lost during reloads?

 

[pentaxuser]

I too have been struggling with this.
Although I could see them supporting the high quality printing industry and therefore, indirectly, supporting the ability of paper manufacturers to make really fancy paper (like backing paper and leaders and trailers).

Same here. I can understand why Shanghai may make an attempt to set up a small knife and fork operation to make 220 ( the famous little old Chinese ladies using hand tools in the dark analogy ) to establish itself and indicate that it wants to cater for customers in the minority but not why its State backers, should there even be any such backing even in a small way, would want to give it any real practical help in terms of resources . What might this possibly do for the government? Nothing much as I see it and I think we can all probably agree that whatever we think of China it does not foolishly invest resources for little or no return

Mind you were the Chinese government prepared to enter the film market in a big way and become the new Rochester on Yangtze I am not sure how many might have a crisis of conscience and refuse to buy its products

pentaxuser

 

[faberryman]

Perhaps state photographers have 220 cameras and the government wants to limit shots lost during reloads?

Undoubtedly that's it. Either that or during the Great Leap Foward, people took their 220 cameras with them.

 

[Alan Johnson]

The original Shanghai film moved to a new factory and marketing .
https://www.myfavouritelens.com/shanghai-gp3-100-120-film-review/
620 Shanghai film I just received appears to be marketed by the company that took over , it has the same name on the pack.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I just can't think of any reason why China would need 220 film. Corner the market for a few guys on Photrio?

I too have been struggling with this.
Although I could see them supporting the high quality printing industry and therefore, indirectly, supporting the ability of paper manufacturers to make really fancy paper (like backing paper and leaders and trailers).

Same here. I can understand why Shanghai may make an attempt to set up a small knife and fork operation to make 220 ( the famous little old Chinese ladies using hand tools in the dark analogy ) to establish itself and indicate that it wants to cater for customers in the minority but not why its State backers, should there even be any such backing even in a small way, would want to give it any real practical help in terms of resources . What might this possibly do for the government? Nothing much as I see it and I think we can all probably agree that whatever we think of China it does not foolishly invest resources for little or no return

Mind you were the Chinese government prepared to enter the film market in a big way and become the new Rochester on Yangtze I am not sure how many might have a crisis of conscience and refuse to buy its products

pentaxuser

It is baffling why China would invest in a great leap backwards, when if they choose they could make good or great medium format or 35mm film cameras, even digital cameras.

 

[flavio81]

Anyone notice the prices for 220 film? I have a bunch of Fujifilm NPH 220 and Agfa Optima 220. Always looking for great deals but lately I’ve nice prices on eBay are going way up. Someone asking $44 for a roll ( single ) of Portra 400NC. Box of 5 rolls of NPH for $150. I’ve seen single rolls of Agfa Optima for $20 or more—I bought three boxes of 220 for $90 recently. Who’s shooting 220?

I buy 220 from ebay. There are tons of ridiculously overpriced rolls. However from time to time there's something at a reasonable price.

 

[Arcadia4]

The Shanggong group, who owned the Shanghai film brand have focussed on the world of industrial sewing machines including several former german brands;
https://www.sgsbgroup.com/en/about_40.html
https://www.sgsbgroup.com/en/about_41.html
Reference to the Shanggong Shanghai Photosensitive material factory no longer features on their site. The group has been ‘privately ‘ held since 1993 although that still involves government support, looking at annual reports which are also produced in english, film went from about 2.5% of turnover on its own in 2011 to <1% (24m rmb/3.8m usd) inc office materials by 2019 of this xray would probably be the main area. Overall it suggests that strategy wise a pre-eminence in sewing machines where sales are now >2Bn rmb, was more important than film. Presumably this explains the film brand being taken over by a former wholesaler, who are also advertising their services to confection third party film - https://shop.shjcfilm.com/pages/oem-film

 

[flavio81]

Who’s shooting 220?

I do. I have a reasonable amount of 220 rolls (about 12) that i use from time to time. And buy more on eBay if the price is right.

220 is the best roll film format for me!

 

[flavio81]

For the manufacturer:

• difficulty to manufacture to avoid problems with the film laying flat

Source of this claim?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Source of this claim?

Yes, recently on this website, someone posted problems with one brand of 220 not feeding correctly. Is that close enough?

 

[Huss]

Yes, recently on this website, someone posted problems with one brand of 220 not feeding correctly. Is that close enough?

That was the new Shanghai 220 film. Which sounds to me not to be a problem with 220 film in general, but this mfg.
I've never had feeding or flatness problems shooting 220 film (Ilford, Kodak, Fuji)

 

[Huss]

I sold off all my 220 E6 film quite recently. Some here, some on ebay. On ebay I did not get anywhere near the crazy prices some people are asking - pretty much the same as I was asking here.

So just because someone asks for a nutty price, does not mean they get it.

Still have C41 220 left. Reason I sold the E6 was that it started to be an issue getting it developed. Really expensive with ridiculous turn around times.
All my 220 film is expired (obviously!) but I have had no issues with image quality. However it was stored correctly.

 

[destroya]

I have been buying 220 when I see it offered at a fair price. just wish I hadn't wasted a lot of it many years ago when i could have shot the same film in 120. but for hiking in the sierra's 220 helps keep the weight and bulk down just a little.

john

 

[iakustov]

I bought velvia in 220 fresh from Kumar when it was still in production, there are still some 100+ rolls in my freezer as I don't shoot more than 10 rolls / year.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I really don't have much use for 220 film anymore, but when I shot weddings I used four 220 'blad backs and that was a Godsend at the time. I only kept one 220 back as a keepsake and for some Fuji 220 Velvia and Fuji negative film I have in cold storage. If I were to buy some Shanghai 220 it would be for my Pentax 6X7's since they are a bit of a pain to load and it would save time that way. I used a fair amount of GP3 120 before they closed the factory for retooling/remodeling and thought it a really nice beefy film that was easy to work with. After they started up again and the price was raised to HP5+ levels I stopped buying it. When the price comes down, which I'm sure it will, I'll probably buy some more to use in my folders. I do have two boxes of GP3 4x5 to try and if there are no manufacturing flaws in that I'll buy some 8x10 Shanghai since it's as cheap an 8x10 film as you can get right now. I know the 120 film was very nice in diluted Rodinal and also very nice in Kodaks old DK-50 developer. In fact it wasn't to picky as to what developer you used, which was another big plus. I see Shanghai's future as pretty bright since if anybody can make the impossible work the Chinese can. We'll see I guess? JohnW

 

[flavio81]

I really don't have much use for 220 film anymore, but when I shot weddings I used four 220 'blad backs and that was a Godsend at the time. I only kept one 220 back as a keepsake and for some Fuji 220 Velvia and Fuji negative film I have in cold storage. If I were to buy some Shanghai 220 it would be for my Pentax 6X7's since they are a bit of a pain to load and it would save time that way.

My thoughts exactly. And on my Bronica ETRSi where i get 30 shots per roll, making it very convenient. I currently have some 220 in stock which I use on the Bronica.

 

[AnselMortensen]

I have some 220 Shanghai on order.
I have a 220 back for my ETRS, and a 220 stainless processing reel.
I plan on testing it out with Rodinal.
It will be an interesting experiment, hopefully they have worked out any QC issues.
It will be nice to be able to shoot 30 frames of 645 without reloading...loading my ETRS backs is a fiddly proposition.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I have some TXP from the last batch in the freezer but accept that eventually my Linhof 220 insert will go the way of the film pack holder. 220 is great for travel because it takes half the space of 120 in the bag, and if I'm shooting a lot of film, I can easily process twice as much film in a tank (I know that some people load two 120 rolls on a 220 reel, but I don't trust myself to do that).

 

[tballphoto]

YOu can buy the 220 inserts for nearly nothing. Like 3 for the cost of a single intact 120 insert when you deal with the mamiya 645 1000s

 

[Donald Qualls]

YOu can buy the 220 inserts for nearly nothing. Like 3 for the cost of a single intact 120 insert when you deal with the mamiya 645 1000s

In some models contemporary with the M645 family, it was a simple toggle flip type of operation to convert an insert from 120 to 220 or vice versa, so if you want spares, it would make sense to buy the 220 inserts and convert as needed...

 

[eli griggs]

Well, the first thing to suss out is, what are the Chinese People's photography habits?

Will a Hoga accept 220?

What format cameras do most shoot?

Is this intended to actually bring in overseas currency to the makers, the Army, or other Agency?5

I just can't think of any reason why China would need 220 film. Corner the market for a few guys on Photrio?

Is it simply possible that China really does want to accommodate their own populations, and the World at large, plus increase it's share
of the Market, by reinvestment into their own industry?

Cheers.