2 more easy scanner calibration/profiling Q's

[timbo10ca]

I went to a talk on scanning and was told that a scanner should be profiled/calibrated at least once a month. I'm not sure why this is necessary- the file data doesn't change, and the color of the target doesn't change. Does the scanner itself drift in how it is reading the colors?

Also, if I'm using a target to calibrate in Vuescan, do I set the white balance to neutral when scanning and using the profiles thereafter? I scanned a photo of my daughter made with Astia and it had a green cast to it, even with the scanner calibrated with an Astia target. I tried using NikonScan and it was only marginally better (without the aid of any ability to calibrate with targets).

Thanks,
Tim

 

[toyotadesigner]

Well, VueScan is a fantastic tool, but sometimes it's weird to manage.

Setting the colors to neutral is perfect, however you should also change the drop down box 'scanner color space' somewhere further down on that page and change it to ICC and then select your profile you've saved.

In addition select ICC in the 'film color space'.

Calibrating the scanner does not mean that the scanner stores the data - it's the software (VueScan) that uses the calibration.

In the help files Ed Hamrick explained how to calibrate a scanner and how to generate an ICC profile and save it.

Once you've used the correct ICC, the software will remember your settings at the next start.

With negative film I used to use a scanner target as well, but not with slide film.

Oh, just a thought: could it be that you've scanned a photographed (on negative film) paper IT8 target and used that one for slides??? It won't work - never ever.

For Astia, Provia and Velvia (all slide films) just use the built-in profiles - they are fantastic. And remember: you need a different target for different film emulsions, and you need a slide target for slide films...<sigh> it could be a costly process.

Just one more trick: if you have a scene with weird colors, just right click an area in the preview that falls into the middle grey tone (or even a white spot in the preview scene) - this enables the manual white balance and works even in tricky situations.

I've read the manual several times, believe me, and I've spent some time online with Ed Hamrick to improve the interface for Nikon scanners, so I can tell you that VueScan does have more features 'under the hood' than 80% of the users will imagine.

 

[MikeSeb]

...I've spent some time online with Ed Hamrick to improve the interface for Nikon scanners....

Well, the next time you chat with Ed, maybe ask him why it's nearly impossible to use VueScan with a Nikon 8000/9000 to batch-scan a strip of 2-4 medium format negatives!

With the Nikon Scan software this is easy: scan thumbnails; preview scan and adjust white/black points and crop; final scan. With VueScan doing the same thing is impossibly cumbersome and counterintuitive.

 

[timbo10ca]

Thanks jens- I have done part of what you suggest, hopefully your tricks will solve things for me. I am only using targets for slide film- that's all I have (as a "starter kit" from Wolf Faust). I wish now I hadn't spent the money on them, considering whay you say about the built-in profiles. I don't use color neg film to get the benefit of targets as you suggest.

I read the help file and see that the files on the CD that came with the targets are .ini files and should be saved in the folder with Vuescan.ini. I also see that when I save my options/Vuescan preferences for a certain film, the file is also an .ini file. I assume it is just adding things like scan size, output preferences, etc to the .ini file for the target so it's all together when I load it, rather than overwriting it.

Out of curiosity, what other features "under the hood" are you referring to? I was told that profiling the printer is an expensive and envolved process that isn't really worth it, but calibrating my monitor is a good idea. So I bought a Spyder monitor profiling device. I assume the film target has the same color info as the Spyder so they should coincide. I have everything set to use Adobe 1998.

So why is it that hardware needs to be profiled every month?

Tim

 

[donbga]

I went to a talk on scanning and was told that a scanner should be profiled/calibrated at least once a month. I'm not sure why this is necessary- the file data doesn't change, and the color of the target doesn't change. Does the scanner itself drift in how it is reading the colors?

Also, if I'm using a target to calibrate in Vuescan, do I set the white balance to neutral when scanning and using the profiles thereafter? I scanned a photo of my daughter made with Astia and it had a green cast to it, even with the scanner calibrated with an Astia target. I tried using NikonScan and it was only marginally better (without the aid of any ability to calibrate with targets).

Thanks,
Tim

Take a look at this link, perhaps it will be helful to you. Scanners need to be calibrated and profiled since the output from the light source changes gradually.

http://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc16.htm

Also take a look at this page:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/SOFT/VUE/VUE.HTM

BTW, you can't create ICC profiles for color negative film. IMO and experience you do get better color accuracy profiling for specific slide films such Velvia, Kodachrome, etc. Given that you may not wish to do that profiling an E-6 target will produce better color scans of positives than no profiles at all.

I wouldn't say that the built-in Vuescan are fantastic but they may be better than selecting the generic setting.

 

[toyotadesigner]

Mike,

it works: I always scan 6x9 slides in a batch. Just use the frame spacing option, that means for 6x9 slides the frame spacing is a tad over 90mm. In MF the frame spacing depends on the camera transport mechanism, so you need to measure your slide strips and set the values accordingly.

The first slide needs an offset depending on how you mount the film strip in the holder. Just remember the setting. You can measure the necessary distance by moving the pointer from the very left side to the first scan (preview) line of the slide...

Tim,

you can purchase Fuji slide film targets from Wolf Faust, but not for all emulsions. The profiles that are built in are excellent.

*.ini files: rename them so you remember which one you'll need.

Calibrating a monitor is simple with the MCW (Monitor Calibration Wizard) - google for that free utility, it does a great job. On the Mac you have a built in color profiler.

The film target will have a different profile. Calibrating a complete workflow is not something to accomplish in 20 minutes. First calibrate your monitor, then the scanner, then do a scan and print it, then calibrate the printer, etc. However, calibrating a printer is tedious and might lead to frustrating results, unless you have a HP Designjet with a built-in calibration.

The 'features under the hood' are those you can't access via the menu - they are in the manuals

Hardware needs to be calibrated from time to time, but not every month, because the LEDs or the light source might change its color range (very subtle process). However, the Nikon Coolscan 5000 and 9000 always perform a calibration on start up, and with VueScan you can re-calibrate them in between your scanning sessions: scanner tab -> calibrate. On the 5000 it will take some 40 seconds, on the 9000 two minutes. So with the Nikon scanners you don't need a 'monthly calibration' at all (seems to be a wise decision to invest a bit more into a good scanner).

 

[toyotadesigner]

Don,

BTW, you can't create ICC profiles for color negative film.

Huh? What's the obstacle? I've done it - what have I done wrong?

I wouldn't say that the built-in Vuescan are fantastic but they may be better than selecting the generic setting.

Hm, I'm almost always using the GENERIC setting but merge a specific color profile to the output. The results are just great as you can see in this example:

OK, it's a jpg, so it lacks the color rendition of a 48 bit TIFF, but I think it transmits more than 1.000 words, particularly for the shadow areas... Shot with a Plaubel 69W ProShift and a Schneider 5.6/47mm lens plus center filter on Fuji Provia 100 F Pro, scanned with Nikon Coolscan 9000 @ 4000 ppi @ 48 bit.

Sorry for the big, fat copyright, but there are some people out there at some magazines who like to use my images as freeware...

 

[timbo10ca]

Thanks all.

 

[donbga]

Huh? What's the obstacle? I've done it - what have I done wrong?

No one makes an IT8 target for color negative films.

lens plus center filter on Fuji Provia 100 F Pro, scanned with Nikon Coolscan 9000 @ 4000 ppi @ 48 bit.

Fuji Provia? I thought we were discussing color negative film.

Sorry for the big, fat copyright, but there are some people out there at some magazines who like to use my images as freeware...

You're pulling our leg right?

Don

 

[toyotadesigner]

Don,

No one makes an IT8 target for color negative films.

Maybe then you can inform me what this is?

If you can read you'll see in the lower left corner what it is. For more in-depth information you should navigate to http://www.coloraid.de/ - I think there are tons of 'never-heard-before news' on that site for you.

Fuji Provia? I thought we were discussing color negative film.

If you can read, you know that Tim mentioned Fuji Astia - clearly a slide film. Maybe you should navigate to http://www.fujifilm.com/products/professional_films/color_reversalfilms/index.html for detailed product information.

You're pulling our leg right?

Would you mind to tell me what this means? Though I'm fluent in 3 languages, there are some proverbs I don't understand.

 

[donbga]

Jens,

Maybe then you can inform me what this is?

It's an IT8 reflective target. It's not an IT8 color negative target.

If you can read you'll see in the lower left corner what it is. For more in-depth information you should navigate to http://www.coloraid.de/ - I think there are tons of 'never-heard-before news' on that site for you.

I know you are trying to be sarcastic Jens but I've visited the site before, so nothing new there for me.

If you can read, you know that Tim mentioned Fuji Astia - clearly a slide film. Maybe you should navigate to

The transition in your reply was a bit unclear to me I thought you were discussing color neg. profiling.

Would you mind to tell me what this means? Though I'm fluent in 3 languages, there are some proverbs I don't understand

It means you've got to be kidding us Jens as I can't imagine any legitimate photo magazine editor stealing this image as an example for color managment or film profiling.

In this post and others here on Hybrid you seem to be easily offended. No need to take things personally when someone poses a question or reaction to your posts.

Merry Christmas,

Don Bryant

 

[toyotadesigner]

Don, of course it is a reflective target - I thought this is common knowledge to all of us. Sorry if this was misleading.

Stealing images: I've experienced it already several times, of course not for photography magazines, but several travel and b2b magazines in the US and Far East used my photographs without permission or licence. This was one of the reasons why I had removed my whole web site and just limited the new one to one page with one single image.

Merry Christmas to you!

 

[sanking]

For more on the subject, try this.

http://www.scs-imaging.co.uk/Pages/ScannerCal.html


"Why can't Negative Film Scanners be Calibrated?

The process of calibrating a scanner requires the use of a precision Target. Nobody produces Colour Negative Targets, because the orange mask on negatives varies so much with exposure that, even if someone did make negative targets, they'd only work if your negatives were exposed the same way as the target."

Sandy King