16 m.m. cine equypment

[nokia2010]

I thought it was quite strudy. If it was bad, I will have to look for another cameras.
But there any 16 m.m. cameras that could record sound on film? And today there is any 16 m.m. film with magnetic stripe still manufactured?

 

[AgX]

In the USA there was also that concept for professional fiming with sound cameras. In Europe professionals typically used seperate sound recording.

 

[Lee Rust]

I thought it was quite strudy. If it was bad, I will have to look for another cameras.
But there any 16 m.m. cameras that could record sound on film? And today there is any 16 m.m. film with magnetic stripe still manufactured?

The Auricon 16mm cameras can record sound on film, either optical or magnetic, but the magnetically striped film is no longer made.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Here's a supposed sync clip from a Scoopic

 

[nokia2010]

The "Auricon" looks nice... but you do need an amplifier. It may be portable, but not for a person like me, who dosen't have a strudy physical condition. But it my be an ideea for the future.
I guess 16 m.m. can only record one track of optical sound and 16 m.m. optical sound film haves perforations on just one side.

 

[AgX]

With seperate sound recording you got a lot of choices for cameras and recorders. You also can use the film width better. There was a reason that the majority of manufacturers and cinematographers stuck to seperate recording.

 

[nokia2010]

But for an amatuer is harder to get sound on film after separate tape recording... there where any projector that can properly do sound sync with a tape recorder?

 

[Lee Rust]

The "Auricon" looks nice... but you do need an amplifier. It may be portable, but not for a person like me, who dosen't have a strudy physical condition. But it my be an ideea for the future.
I guess 16 m.m. can only record one track of optical sound and 16 m.m. optical sound film haves perforations on just one side.

Auricons use special battery-powered amplifiers for their optical soundtrack, but the film transports have AC motors that either need power from the grid or from a battery-powered inverter. They are big, heavy cameras that were most often used for TV news reporting before the advent of video tape. However they remain the only practical way to produce an optical soundtrack in-camera on single-perf 16mm film.

 

[Europan]

16 mm COMMAG cameras, combined magnetic sound system, are professional gear. Today you can find those cameras for cheap but prestriped stock is no longer available.

You can have magnetic stripes on processed film, also polyester base, at Vangelisti, Italy. So if you want to work with a COMMAG projector, you can go that way, rerecording until satisfactory. 16 mm sound production is expensive. Sound recorders are no longer bulky and heavy but you still have to take care of camera noise dampening, directional microphones, crystal control of the camera motor, and claps. After the shoot you either synch and edit copies on an editor or, more expensive still, with an editing suite. You can try to edit image and sound digitally yourself but then you have left filmmaking.

If it’s not entirely out of the question, shoot 8 mm. You can pick a projector-coupler-recorder combination that will perform like nothing available in 16 mm. You can use relatively cheap magnetic tape, copy recordings, and cut those up. Or record digitally, copy onto tape, and edit. Sound couplers work with smooth rollers or sprocket rollers. Higher tape speeds can be combined with modest frame rates such as 16 fps and 7.5 ips (19,05 cm/s). Perforated magnetic stock is made by Pyral-Mulann, France.

If you are crazy enough, find a 16 mm optical sound recorder. Feed it with ORWO TF 12, develop the recordings. Have prints made off the sound negatives. Now you can see the sound and edit on viewer and projector.

 

[AgX]

16 mm COMMAG cameras, combined magnetic sound system, are professional gear.

But as I indicated they were inhomogeneously spread over the world.

 

[Kino]

16 mm COMMAG cameras, combined magnetic sound system, are professional gear. Today you can find those cameras for cheap but prestriped stock is no longer available.

You can have magnetic stripes on processed film, also polyester base, at Vangelisti, Italy. So if you want to work with a COMMAG projector, you can go that way, rerecording until satisfactory. 16 mm sound production is expensive. Sound recorders are no longer bulky and heavy but you still have to take care of camera noise dampening, directional microphones, crystal control of the camera motor, and claps. After the shoot you either synch and edit copies on an editor or, more expensive still, with an editing suite. You can try to edit image and sound digitally yourself but then you have left filmmaking.

If it’s not entirely out of the question, shoot 8 mm. You can pick a projector-coupler-recorder combination that will perform like nothing available in 16 mm. You can use relatively cheap magnetic tape, copy recordings, and cut those up. Or record digitally, copy onto tape, and edit. Sound couplers work with smooth rollers or sprocket rollers. Higher tape speeds can be combined with modest frame rates such as 16 fps and 7.5 ips (19,05 cm/s). Perforated magnetic stock is made by Pyral-Mulann, France.

If you are crazy enough, find a 16 mm optical sound recorder. Feed it with ORWO TF 12, develop the recordings. Have prints made off the sound negatives. Now you can see the sound and edit on viewer and projector.

Just one little aspect everyone seems to be overlooking regards SOF editing; the sound is recorded displaced (advanced from the aperture according to each format) and unless you lay it off onto mag fullcoat or run the original through a displacement recorder like we used to use at Newsfilm Stations, you will be cutting the sound off of the heads of each shot and leaving the tail of this shot's sound over the head of the next incoming shot.

This is a minefield; travel at your own risk.

The OP needs to do some serious, basic homework on the subject. There are many books and websites with this knowledge given freely. We cannot summarize 90 years of SOF production in a few paragraphs.

 

[nokia2010]

But what film splicer do you recomend: glue or tape?

 

[Kino]

But what film splicer do you recomend: glue or tape?

Depends on the application; they are designed for differing purposes.
Here's a Lenny Lipton book that will offer you tons of information at the price of less than a roll of film...
It may even be in a library near you or you can request an interlibrary loan and, with a bit of patience, read it for free.

 

[nokia2010]

I don't think they have it in Romania Found it on archive.org. I wonder if borrowing it is for free.
I will look for books about this subject published in Romanian. There is even one published in 1943.
Purposes... well I want a splicer for an eventual repair of old films - I do have 4 rolls. Finding spools that you can put films onto it is another adventure in Romania.

 

[Kino]

I don't think they have it in Romania Found it on archive.org. I wonder if borrowing it is for free.
I will look for books about this subject published in Romanian. There is even one published in 1943.
Purposes... well I want a splicer for an eventual repair of old films - I do have 4 rolls. Finding spools that you can put films onto it is another adventure in Romania.

If you are splicing for projection, go with the cement splicer. It takes a little bit to learn how to do good cement splices, but they are far more durable in projection.

 

[nokia2010]

But the cement one dosen't takes too many from the movie?

 

[nokia2010]

"Siemens" 2000 seems to be a pretty nice projector, but this ones tends to be a top one in terms of reability. Does any one had seen one working?

 

[nokia2010]

But there where any tabletop (like "Zeiss-Ikon" Moviescop) that had manual winding and sound reproduction?
Shees, finding a viewer (not projector) for 16 m.m. in Romania is impossible.

 

[nokia2010]

Does any one you knows something about "Yade" 16 m.m. animated film viewer.

 

[Greg Kriss]

Sync sound in the pre-digital age was always a real issue

Back in 1969 when they were filming the Woodstock Music Festival with multiple cameras, an assistant would regularly fire off a flash (don't remember if it was colored or not). Later on in the editing room, the different footages could be synced by matching up the film frames that showed the flash being fired.

 

[nokia2010]

That was and very intrersing ideea!
But there where any hand crank projectors that had optical sound head?

 

[btaylor]

But there where any tabletop (like "Zeiss-Ikon" Moviescop) that had manual winding and sound reproduction?
Shees, finding a viewer (not projector) for 16 m.m. in Romania is impossible.

Moviola made optical and magnetic sound and picture readers that you used with a set of rewinds and a sync block. IIRC Acmade made a nice motorized one too, the Pic Sync I think it was called.

 

[btaylor]

That was and very intrersing ideea!
But there where any hand crank projectors that had optical sound head?

I do not know. Hand cranking is not good for sound reproduction, it is very hard to keep the speed consistent enough to not hear the speed distortion.

 

[Europan]

Projectors, no. Viewers or viewer-editors, yes. On professional equipment such as Moviola, Steenbeck et al. you can pull the film through image and or sound head by hand in both directions but the rather rough handling with these machines is nothing for originals. You only handle copies on a Moviola or a Steenbeck (Cinemonta, Prevost, Schmid, HKS, Union, Atlas, etc.).

 

[nokia2010]

Sorry, what do you mean by handling copies?
I want such machine I will have to bring it Romania. Never seen one for sale here, trough all that they existed. Only editing table (probably with no carncking) was at the state television.