!

[dr bob]

There is reason to believe an APUG mag would be accepted by sufficient supporters to be viable. I recently (today) observed several posts in rec.photo.darkroom concerning the demise of Darkroom magazine and expressing a desire for a "good" phsical publication as a replacement of sorts.

I would enthusiastically support an effort if the product can be made first-class with good photo and diagram reproduction in the technical articles. There are issues of course. One is circulation. APUG is truly universal and cosmopolitan, therefore postage costs for even a small pub must be considered. Then there is the compensation for writers. I ask for nothing but consideration, but there are those who's living depend on writing and who can contribute but should be paid. No one can be expected to donate the time required to undertake such an enterprise without compensation either.

I subscribed to a publication by a small "company" called "Better Boat" a few years back. The mag was only a few pages and not "slick" but the articles made it worth the small-ish cost. I think it was available at better newsstands, but I can't remember clearly - it was a while ago. This is an example of a small group publishing a small mag that was well worth the effort, at least then.

I think something _must_ be done to try to preserve traditional chemical photography before it is a lost art. You may not believe this is possible, but try and find someone who can repair a toaster.

Considering the public interest in traditional photography: my next door neighbor restores antique gasoline engines. He subscribes to several pubs relative to his work. I’ve been surprised at his ability to obtain information and parts. Given the similarity in circumstances, I see no reason why “our” efforts could not succeed as well. (Everyone gives their old engines to Doug and their old cameras to me.)

Truly, dr bob.

 

[Ed Sukach]

"Dear Aunt Aggie,

I'm throwing a darkroom party at the weekend and wonder if you could suggest some party games to help the whole thing go with a swing! I tried this at the last one I held, but "bobbing for apples in the dev tank" didn't go quite as well as I'd thought it would..."

Seriously though, all the best. Looking around and the wealth of talent on this site, this could be very good indeed!

We defintely have the "spirit"!!

I would suggest we draft FrankB as humor editor. If he keeps up with ideas like "bobbing for apples in the dev tank" (watch for the producers of "Fear Factor" to steal this one..) I'm going to have to buy a box of "Depends." :lol:

When I suggested the consideration of resuscitating the name "Camera and Darkroom", I was serously thinking of name recogniton. I, for one, would at least be stopped in my tracks at the newstand if I saw the title "Camera and Darkroom" on the shelves. That magazine, and I'll be the first to admit it was not perfect, had a sky-high image in the photographic market. At the end of its life, it was a Larry Flynt publication ... I can only wonder if its demise was really due the idea that it was not "pornographic enough" for the 'powers that used to be' in that organization.

To tell the truth, if *I* saw the title "Camera and Darkroom" on a magazine reck, I'd buy five of them, without even browsing - just as a knee-jerk reaction.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

In the Larry Flint spirit, we could just call it "Wet."

 

[lee]

wasn't camera and darkroom set up to LOSE MONEY? Wasn't it shut down because it MADE MONEY and was not the income shelter it was supposed to be? This is how I think I remember hearing the story.

lee\c

 

[clogz]

I wonder who the owner of the "Camera and Darkroom"name is. It is prudent to avoid legal hassles.

 

[glbeas]

So call it Analog Photography and leave it at that. Sorta names it after APUG.

 

[Lex Jenkins]

I'd be happy to contribute articles or writings within my limited expertise - and I use that word while stifling a guffaw. My approach tends to be experimental and I engage in what would be better called "evaluations" than "tests." As a former journalist I come equipped with my own copy of the AP stylebook. And I know the difference between a Waterhouse stop and a hole in the ground.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Call it "Analog Photography" and you'll invite all manner of senseless pedantry about how LightJet prints are really "analog" and B&W film is in some narrow sense "digital" and such.

 

[Jorge]

Call it "Analog Photography" and you'll invite all manner of senseless pedantry about how LightJet prints are really "analog" and B&W film is in some narrow sense "digital" and such.

I agree with David, I can just see the flood of letter and e mails. Naming it Camera & Darkroom I suppose would be ok, but we would have to check if the name is a registered trademark. Even though the magazine is no longer in publication I suppose Flynt might still hold the name trademark.

As far as compensation goes, if Aggie and Steve are willing to start the magazine without compensation I think it will not be difficult to get people to write articles and submit portfolios without compensation. MAgazines traditionally dont pay much for contributions, I was checking the submission guidelines for Lenswork and they pay $100 and I think 5 issues for an article/portfolio if published. Since this will be a start up magazine I think many will understand there is not much money available at the beguinning. Photographers traditionally are very generous with their knowledge and I think it is not far fetched to think some will be willing to help out to get the magazine off the ground.

Of ocurse the direction the magazine takes will be up to Steve and Aggie, but IMO the model that Lenswork is using is worth mulling over.

 

[Aggie]

..

 

[glbeas]

Call it "Analog Photography" and you'll invite all manner of senseless pedantry about how LightJet prints are really "analog" and B&W film is in some narrow sense "digital" and such.

And we have to pay attention to such pedantry? Theres always going to be some so and so willing to create that kind of static and theres no reason we need to be worried by it.
BTW I think the "APUG" for the magazine could be refered to as the Analog Photography Users Guide.

 

[doughowk]

From a marketing viewpoint, don't think "APUG" for a name of new magazine is wise choice. If you're at a newstand in photography section, what are you going to leaf thru? Word recognition is important. If you have to explain a word - except for name brand recognition - then you're losing sales. If you want to reach out to more than just the in-the-know, a name for a new, struggling magazine is a critical choice.

These comments are said because I would really like to see a non-digital photo magazine be successful, just as I'd like to see non-digital photography preserved by more than a few die-hards. A "fine print" is an art form that can only be preserved thru recognition of its value.

 

[Donald Miller]

From a marketing viewpoint, don't think "APUG" for a name of new magazine is wise choice. If you're at a newstand in photography section, what are you going to leaf thru? Word recognition is important. If you have to explain a word - except for name brand recognition - then you're losing sales. If you want to reach out to more than just the in-the-know, a name for a new, struggling magazine is a critical choice.

These comments are said because I would really like to see a non-digital photo magazine be successful, just as I'd like to see non-digital photography preserved by more than a few die-hards. A "fine print" is an art form that can only be preserved thru recognition of its value.

I think that Doug has a valid point. Additionally, from personal experience, I have found that the term "analog" is as distasteful to some folks as spinach. I wonder if, as a compromise, we might consider naming the magazine

Apug
Traditional Photography.

What do you think?

 

[Poco]

You can count on another subscription from me, Aggie.

FWIW, I tend to agree with Doug that a cryptic name on the newsstand could be problem. When I see a title with an anagram, I tend to assume it's some trade rag or technical journal which won't interest me much -- and newstands that are inclusive enough to carry this kind of magazine often are so packed as to only let the name be visible. I'd go with something simple but effective like "Non-Digital Photography" with "Non" highlighted in a different color -- given today'state of the industry, that title would certainly be an eye catcher.

I'd also try to have at least one feature in every issue on "alternative processes" which simply can't be replicated convincingly by digital (maybe interest Ed Buffaloe in the job of "alternative process" editor?). It strikes me that an undeclared goal of every issue should be to illustrate the wonderful photographic possibilities that would be lost in an all digital world.

 

[Robert]

I have found that the term "analog" is as distasteful to some folks as spinach.

I'm not sure about the spinach but Analog already exists. Or at least it used to. It's a Sci Fi mag.

 

[Sean]

I tend to think 'APUG' could develop into a type of 'brand' encompassing traditional photography. What does 'Kodak' mean after all? When I go down to megamags and look at the photography section (15+ photomags), anything with an interesting photo on the cover and a good topics list gets my attention. It could be called "dogmeat's quarterly photo journal", if the content is great I'll buy it...

 

[doughowk]

Brand name recognition costs millions of dollars to create; and is used by industries to differentiate a product where there is only trivial differences (Pepsi vs Coke). There are real differences between non-digital & digital techniques for creating a fine print, and that difference is I think the purpose of a new magazine. Traditional Photography: an APUG quarterly

 

[Nige]

I was reading this earlier and almost posted "Traditional Photography" as a suggestion... so if it comes to a vote and that's an option, I'll be going for that I guess!

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I also like "Traditional Photography." "APUG" need not even be on the cover. It could appear inside under the masthead or maybe just the URL could appear somewhere on the cover.

 

[lee]

I vote with Doug on this. This seems to distill everything this group is supposed to be about. But I would like to see it as

"Traditional Silver Photography: an APUG Quarterly"

lee\c

 

[lee]

My nomination serves my purposes only. I am a silver printer. To be inclusive I resend and recuse my title and go with Dougs name.

lee\c

 

[BobF]

Here is another vote for "Tradition" or "Classic" or some other positive and automaticaly recognizeable words in the name. You always have to explain "APUG" to most other photographers, and "non-digital" is a negative that makes the photogeeks think that all you are is a digital reactionary. I think most of us have made an affirmitive decision to go this way even if digital didn't exist. Traditional Photography has something special that we know about and want to share.

Bob

BTW one pre-subscription here.

 

[glbeas]

I vote with Doug on this. This seems to distill everything this group is supposed to be about. But I would like to see it as

"Traditional Silver Photography: an APUG Quarterly"

lee\c

Lee that has a nice ring to it and covers the whole concept well. Your or Dougs version would get my vote whichever one is used.

 

[Aggie]

..

 

[FrankB]

There do seem to be a ludicrous number of purely digital photography mags on the market! I think you're right, Aggie; they can't all survive in the long term.

More worrying to me is the rapid swing of mainstream photo mags towards a digital bias. I currently subscribe to Practical Photography here in the UK but, if they keep going the way they are at the moment, this may be a very temporary arrangement!

I just received their Black and White special. I'm startled to have to report that there don't seem to be any articles in it at all on traditional darkroom techniques! There's a review of which films are best for scanning, inkjet papers, continuous inking systems... ...the closest it comes is a look at some chromagenic B&W films. It's a bloody joke!

Their dedicated digital photography section seems to be growing too; I wonder how long it will be before the bulk of the mag is digital with a small traditional section somewhere at the back. :-(

Ailsa, if you're watching, please don't let your excellent publication go down the same road!

(Sorry for the slightly off-topic rant; I had to get it out of my system! Now, back to the matter at hand.)

I realise you're getting bombarded with suggestions at the moment, Aggie, but I would like to add (yet) another to your stockpile (sorry!). I'd really like to see a Featured Member column, similar to the one on the site at present.

Looking around at the members here on the site, the range of skills and chosen fields is huge and the level of knowledge in those fields is immense. With Les, Thomas, Ed, Cheryl, Lex, Alex, etc, etc, etc... (I'm going to stop now because typing in the full list would make my fingers hurt!) we could have a brilliant featured member once a quarter for several decades even on our existing membership!

As a relative newbie to the whole photography arena I find that one of the biggest benefits I get from hanging around here is the exposure to different ideas, methods and viewpoints from people who really know their chosen fields. I'd cite examples but I think I'd embarrass some people in the process! You get the general idea anyhow.

All the best

Frank