127 film bulk rolling - my best practice

[blee1996]

We all love cute TLRs like Baby Rollei and Sawyer/Topcon that produce 4x4 images using 127 film. But 127 film is no longer available commercially, so here is my way of hand rolling 127 film from 46mm bulk roll film.

127 bulk film rolling by Zheng, on Flickr

1. Prepare all the material and tools needed

- Backing paper Reuse from other official 127 rolls (Rerapan, Efke, Agfa)
- 2 metal 127 spools
- One large and heavy clamps, and 2 wooden clothe pin
- 12” plastic ruler or paracord for measurement in the dark
- Scissors, masking tape

2. Procedure (in daylight)

- Roll the beginning part of backing paper onto one metal spool, use big heavy clamp to secure the top bundle, put near edge of table.
- Put fresh masking tape (thicker, slightly narrower than backing paper) where film should start. Keep half of the masking tape unattached.
- Use another metal spool for the bottom end: pre-wind some backing paper until “Stop” sign, use wooden cloth pin to secure the bottom bundle. Let it hang from side of working table.
- Put additional wooden cloth pin in the middle of the backing paper (to avoid tangles)

3. Procedure (in total darkness)

- Measure and cut 25” length of film (e.g. use paracord)
- Tape film to the backing paper on the top end, keep the film straight all the way to the bottom end. Use wooden clothe pin to secure the middle (along the length of backing paper) to avoid tangle.
- Roll tightly starting from the bottom end, all the way to the top end
- Adjust or re-attach masking tape where the beginning of the film is attached tol the backing paper
- Tightly rolling all the way to the beginning, spin the spool to get rid of any slack

4. Back in daylight

- Use another masking tape or rubber band to seal the backing paper
- Keep the 127 roll film in aluminum foil or light-tight canister
- Clearly mark the type of film on the container

 

[runswithsizzers]

I really appreciate you sharing your process. Before seeing this I was unable to imagine how this might work.

Do most/all 127 cameras require reading the frame numbers through a red window? If so, which brand of backing paper is easiest to read?

Do some 127 cameras have stops in the wind mechanism to space the frames mechanically so the red window is unnecessary?

 

[blee1996]

I really appreciate you sharing your process. Before seeing this I was unable to imagine how this might work.

Do most/all 127 cameras require reading the frame numbers through a red window? If so, which brand of backing paper is easiest to read?

Do some 127 cameras have stops in the wind mechanism to space the frames mechanically so the red window is unnecessary?

I have only used a few cameras, and the following have automatic film advance and frame counting:

1) Baby Rollei: line up arrow on backing paper when loading film, no red window
2) Topcon Primo Jr (aka Sawyer IV): it only needs red window for frame number 1
3) Yashica 44: it only needs red window for frame number 1

These 127 cameras entirely rely on red window:
1) Kodak Vollenda 48
2) Bell & Howell Infallible Electric Eye
3) Adox Adoxette

And I believe the vast majority of other 127 cameras need the red window and proper frame numbers on the backing paper.

 

[BAC1967]

Blee, I started out doing it similar to your method, but I found that sometimes I had problems getting the film to line up perfectly. This led to making a jig to simplify the process.

I built this to solve a few of the problems I had with spooling 127 film by hand or at least to make it a little easier.
These problems included the following:
- Getting the film started perfectly strait with the backing paper.
- Cutting the film to the proper length.
- Finding the proper location to start spooling the film.
- Taping the film.

The rails are aluminum with two slots, they're left over from a project, I made some sliding storage doors for my wife. The rails are cut to the required length of the 127 film. The first thing I do, in the light, is run the backing paper from the spool down to the end of the board in the bottom part of the rail. the distance from where the rails end to the end of the board is the proper distance for the leader. I could do this in the dark but it's easier in the light, need to be careful about damaging the backing paper. You can see in the photos below how the paper can get buggered up after being handled a lot. That was some old ReraPan paper I was using to get my measurements.

In the dark I run the film down the top part of the rail until I get to the end. Since there is separation from the paper it's easy to cut the film square by squaring the scissors with the end of the rails. I then put a pre-cut piece of tape on the film using the rails as a guide to help center it. I never put tape all the way to either side of the film, this helps trigger the mechanism that detects the start of the film in the Baby Rolleiflex. It's a small hook that is tripped when it catches on the start of the film. At this point the tape is only attached to the film, not the backing paper.

The next step is to crank the film onto the spool. I first feed the film up to the spool then put some pressure on the paper with my fingers to pinch the film between the backing paper. Then all I have to do is crank it on, when it gets to the end of the film the tape sticks itself to the paper in the correct location.

 

[blee1996]

Hi @BAC1967 thanks for sharing your rig, and it is indeed much more advanced than mine. I'm glad we are pooling knowledge for more people to enjoy the 127 film format.

 

[BAC1967]

Hi @BAC1967 thanks for sharing your rig, and it is indeed much more advanced than mine. I'm glad we are pooling knowledge for more people to enjoy the 127 film format.

I may have gone a bit overboard but I shoot enough 127 to make it worthwhile. Hopefully people can see the problems that can be encountered and some solutions.

By the way, for backing paper I cut down 120 paper with my mother's old ribbon cutter. I just used a sharpie pen to mark the frame numbers.

 

[Cholentpot]

I have only used a few cameras, and the following have automatic film advance and frame counting:

1) Baby Rollei: line up arrow on backing paper when loading film, no red window
2) Topcon Primo Jr (aka Sawyer IV): it only needs red window for frame number 1
3) Yashica 44: it only needs red window for frame number 1

These 127 cameras entirely rely on red window:
1) Kodak Vollenda 48
2) Bell & Howell Infallible Electric Eye
3) Adox Adoxette

And I believe the vast majority of other 127 cameras need the red window and proper frame numbers on the backing paper.

I have a Yashica 44 and I have no idea how to reset the counter. At this point I just give 3/4ths of a crank and hope for the best

 

[Donald Qualls]

Some of the "budget" Yashica 44 examples don't even have a frame counter. I have one with the base triplet lens, 3-speed shutter, and red window all the way.

 

[Cholentpot]

Some of the "budget" Yashica 44 examples don't even have a frame counter. I have one with the base triplet lens, 3-speed shutter, and red window all the way.

Got one of those too. That one has a knob advance not a lever. Does have a nicer art deco look though.

My one with a crank though, I can't reset the numbers. There's a button but I don't know how to use it.

 

[joelbolden]

127 is still quite available, I use it in my Yashica LM44 and Ricoh Super 44. Film Photography Project Store, Reflx Lab and B&H all carry it in Color and/or Monochrome.

 

[blee1996]

127 is still quite available, I use it in my Yashica LM44 and Ricoh Super 44. Film Photography Project Store, Reflx Lab and B&H all carry it in Color and/or Monochrome.

Yes indeed, there are boutique shops producing 127 rolls. I still buy ReraPan 100 and 400 once in a while. But the cost of pre-rolled 127 film tend to be fairly expensive, thus slicing down from 120 film or hand-rolling are quite attractive. Plus you have more choices in emulsions.

 

[makeself]

I’m using a daylight loader that I built myself.
With the Rolleiflex Baby, the first frame gets burned, but the rest are completely fine.

 

[aoresteen]

I still have 20 or so rolls of 127 film in my freezer. I have been saving my spools & backing paper for years so soon I will have to be rolling my own 127. Thanks for your process.

I use a grey Baby Rollei that I installed a Maxwell screen in. It becomes a new camera when you do this!!! Here are links to
my site pages on 127 film & Rollei 4x4,

https://www.oresteen.com/ROLLEI4X4.htm

Using The Rollei 4x4

I am traveling out of the country and my site SSL certificate has expired. You may get an "Unsafe site" message. It's safe, ignore. When I get back home I will get it fixed.

Tony

 

[Cholentpot]

My post summer 127 update.

I've not yet developed any that I've shot but I have run into quite a bit of unrolling as I load or unload problems. To the point that I just shoot through the roll in one go basically because I don't trust that the roll is not going to flappy flip out on me. I've also taken to unloading the camera in a dark bag.

I make my own backing paper now. I got a FCK127 slitter. But just the slitter. I slit down 120 paper and it works great.

Also, does anyone in the 127 community here have a line on a Sawyer, Primo Jr, or Baby Rollei? I think I've hit the edge of what I can do with the 4x4 TLRs that I have.

 

[aoresteen]

Yes, I have a Baby Rollei.

 

[Cholentpot]

Yes, I have a Baby Rollei.

Sadly I don't, but I'd like one some day.

 

[blee1996]

I’m using a daylight loader that I built myself.
With the Rolleiflex Baby, the first frame gets burned, but the rest are completely fine.
View attachment 407020 View attachment 407021

That looks really advanced! Don't know if you would start producing the daylight loader or sharing the 3D design files.

 

[Cholentpot]

That looks really advanced! Don't know if you would start productng the daylight loader or sharing the 3D design files.

I can also use one for 120

 

[armadsen]

I’m using a daylight loader that I built myself.
With the Rolleiflex Baby, the first frame gets burned, but the rest are completely fine.
View attachment 407020 View attachment 407021

I would love one of these if you're willing to share the 3D design files. Also happy to buy one from you are interested in selling.

 

[MCB18]

I’m using a daylight loader that I built myself.
With the Rolleiflex Baby, the first frame gets burned, but the rest are completely fine.
View attachment 407020 View attachment 407021

I would really like to know how this works so I can make a 120 version

 

[Donald Qualls]

I would really like to know how this works so I can make a 220 version

Fixed that for you...

 

[MCB18]

Fixed that for you...

Haha

 

[Photosandpotatoes]

Just the thread I was looking for. Nice work @blee1996 and @makeself! thank you for sharing.

I have tried respooling 35mm onto 127 backing and the FCK127 using 120 film but I haven’t had the best of luck. I use a Kodak vest pocket camera so there’s not a lot of room for bulky rolls. But you’ve inspired me to give it a go again.

@blee1996 where are you getting the 46mm bulk film? Looks like Agfa in your photo? I considered getting some during Ilford’s ULF sale but for me/my situation, I didn’t feel the price + rolling frustration would beat the price of new already-rolled 127 film. (Though, obviously, the emulsions are very different!) I’m mostly using Rerapan or expired Verichrome Pan which I reallyyyyy love.

I’m also interested in this daylight loader if you’re willing to sell or sell the designs @makeself

 

[blee1996]

@blee1996 where are you getting the 46mm bulk film? Looks like Agfa in your photo? I considered getting some during Ilford’s ULF sale but for me/my situation, I didn’t feel the price + rolling frustration would beat the price of new already-rolled 127 film. (Though, obviously, the emulsions are very different!) I’m mostly using Rerapan or expired Verichrome Pan which I reallyyyyy love.

I bought my Agfa Portrait 160 from eBay. 46mm bulk rolls show up once in a while: they were used for long roll school portrait cameras and sometimes people still have New Old Stocks. I found the Agfa film kept well in general, and quite usable after so many years.

Once that is depleted, I will resort to slicing down 120 film using the FCK127 kit. I have an extra FCK127 kit in case you want it.

 

[MCB18]

@blee1996 where are you getting the 46mm bulk film? Looks like Agfa in your photo? I considered getting some during Ilford’s ULF sale but for me/my situation, I didn’t feel the price + rolling frustration would beat the price of new already-rolled 127 film. (Though, obviously, the emulsions are very different!) I’m mostly using Rerapan or expired Verichrome Pan which I reallyyyyy love.

I can buy 46mm bulk rolls from Astrum, I made about 30 rolls of 127 during the summer, not gonna do that again because the paper that I can find is utter garbage.

If you’re still looking for some in a few months, let me know I can get you some when I buy film again in November/december. I would need to do the price calculations again since import duty increased, but I believe for 100 feet it would be about $150-200 for 100 ft, depending on the film.