120 Hasselblad back converted to Xpan format?

eli griggs · May 19, 2020

Hi there;

Last night as I was going through YouTube, I came across this video, in which a Hasselblad 6
6x6cm back was converted through the insertion of a mask, to give the same format of the Xpan.

Unlike a 35 mm back adaption, this make horizontal images, so putting the camera on its side is no involved, unless you Want a tall, narrow format.

The girl in the video is claiming many more exposures can be made on 120 this way, than the 12 on an A12 6x6cm, by a partial take-up of the film, by-way-of removing a gear, (in the back?

Has anyone here tried this or similar?

I am curious as to the process of making a mask for a back and the winding steps, etc.

There is a link to the page that showed her the steps, so that helps, and it seems I need an old style A12, with the hole in the back, so I'll need to find one of those, an 'As Is" should be fine, depending on what's wrong with it, so I'll try eBay when the time is right.

Any discussion would be helpful, as well as links, etc.

Be Safe, Be Happy, and Godspeed to all.

roblopes · May 19, 2020

eli griggs said:
Hi there;

Last night as I was going through YouTube, I came across this video, in which a Hasselblad 6
6x6cm back was converted through the insertion of a mask, to give the same format of the Xpan.

Unlike a 35 mm back adaption, this make horizontal images, so putting the camera on its side is no involved, unless you Want a tall, narrow format.

The girl in the video is claiming many more exposures can be made on 120 this way, than the 12 on an A12 6x6cm, by a partial take-up of the film, by-way-of removing a gear, (in the back?

Has anyone here tried this or similar?

I am curious as to the process of making a mask for a back and the winding steps, etc.

There is a link to the page that showed her the steps, so that helps, and it seems I need an old style A12, with the hole in the back, so I'll need to find one of those, an 'As Is" should be fine, depending on what's wrong with it, so I'll try eBay when the time is right.

Any discussion would be helpful, as well as links, etc.

Be Safe, Be Happy, and Godspeed to all.

Need the lens... Just doing 40mm on a 6x6 frame on 35mm film doesn't cut it. I did it, and it looks cool, but it's not the same look as XPan. It's still worth doing though, with a 220 film back and 3D printed spacers. Just have to make a leader for the 35mm film though, otherwise, you waste about 12 frames or so just getting it spooled up.

Sirius Glass · May 19, 2020

roblopes said:
Need the lens... Just doing 40mm on a 6x6 frame on 35mm film doesn't cut it. I did it, and it looks cool, but it's not the same look as XPan. It's still worth doing though, with a 220 film back and 3D printed spacers. Just have to make a leader for the 35mm film though, otherwise, you waste about 12 frames or so just getting it spooled up.

Use the SWC with the 38mm lens or the 30mm Fisheye lens.

Dan Fromm · May 19, 2020

xpan = 24x65.

cropped 6x6 = 24x56. Why bother with making roll holder and finder masks when you can mark the finder, shoot 56x56 and lose no cropping opportunities?

Or you can do what I do. Humble Century Graphic. 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon. 56x82, crop as desired. 38/4.5 Biogon, 56x82 with a mm or two in each corner missing. I have one. 47/5.6 Super Angulon. 56x82, crop as desired. With not much gymnastics, lenses as long as ~ 200 mm can be used on the Century. And then there's the 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. The longest lens that's comfortable on it is the 12"/4 TTH Telephoto in barrel.

Who needs an XPan?

Ariston · May 19, 2020

You’ll get closer with a 6x9 camera cropped.

roblopes · May 19, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
Use the SWC with the 38mm lens or the 30mm Fisheye lens.

I considered the fish eye on my Bronica SQ-AM, but figured that would just make it look strange so I did the 50mm and wasn't wowed. But I think it's definitely cool looking on 35mm, but I think a mask is a good idea on the 220 back to help keep the film as flat as possible. I used Fuji 200 and it looks ok, but not fantastic like using a 135N 35mm film back on the Bronica.

Jeremy Mudd · May 20, 2020

This is much better done with something like an RB67. You get the actual width that's closer to an Xpan and the rotating back makes it much easier if you want to do horizontal or vertical shots.

An example from my RB67 Pro SD with SVEMA MZ-3 ISO 3 35mm film.

ic-racer · May 20, 2020

120 Hasselblad back converted to Xpan format?

Looks more like a 6x4.5 back. What does it have to do with Xpan, I don't see any connection. What am I missing.

Sirius Glass · May 20, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
xpan = 24x65.

cropped 6x6 = 24x56. Why bother with making roll holder and finder masks when you can mark the finder, shoot 56x56 and lose no cropping opportunities?

Or you can do what I do. Humble Century Graphic. 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon. 56x82, crop as desired. 38/4.5 Biogon, 56x82 with a mm or two in each corner missing. I have one. 47/5.6 Super Angulon. 56x82, crop as desired. With not much gymnastics, lenses as long as ~ 200 mm can be used on the Century. And then there's the 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. The longest lens that's comfortable on it is the 12"/4 TTH Telephoto in barrel.

Who needs an XPan?

I agree that this idea just is not going to hack it. For panoramic photographs I use a WideLux F7.

eli griggs · May 21, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
Use the SWC with the 38mm lens or the 30mm Fisheye lens.

The SWC is out of my reach for now, and an old style A12, with border issues is perfect.

I do realize there is a difference, in final format, however for about $30-40 and the possibility of the 50mm lens, and the ability to get a solid 24 frame plus on a normal 120 format film, there is a substantial savings in film to the frame ratio, and simply cropping in the darkroom, and the amount of film no usable for more images because of it.

Plus, unlike the 35mm hack, it does no require the camera to be on it's size, for a horizontal frame.

IMO

eli griggs · May 21, 2020

ic-racer said:
Looks more like a 6x4.5 back. What does it have to do with Xpan, I don't see any connection. What am I missing.

Likely nothing, but it is, to me, an interesting idea, just for the variation in format, without buying another camera.

IMO.

eli griggs · May 21, 2020

Jeremy Mudd said:
This is much better done with something like an RB67. You get the actual width that's closer to an Xpan and the rotating back makes it much easier if you want to do horizontal or vertical shots.

An example from my RB67 Pro SD with SVEMA MZ-3 ISO 3 35mm film.

View attachment 246606

Perhaps, however, I already have the Hasselblad, and am no interested in buying into a new system, or even the Xpan itself.

Scant dollars need to fall where they can do the most for the money.

IMO.

Dan Fromm said:
xpan = 24x65.

cropped 6x6 = 24x56. Why bother with making roll holder and finder masks when you can mark the finder, shoot 56x56 and lose no cropping opportunities?

Or you can do what I do. Humble Century Graphic. 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon. 56x82, crop as desired. 38/4.5 Biogon, 56x82 with a mm or two in each corner missing. I have one. 47/5.6 Super Angulon. 56x82, crop as desired. With not much gymnastics, lenses as long as ~ 200 mm can be used on the Century. And then there's the 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. The longest lens that's comfortable on it is the 12"/4 TTH Telephoto in barrel.

Who needs an XPan?

eli griggs · May 21, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
xpan = 24x65.

cropped 6x6 = 24x56. Why bother with making roll holder and finder masks when you can mark the finder, shoot 56x56 and lose no cropping opportunities?

Or you can do what I do. Humble Century Graphic. 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon. 56x82, crop as desired. 38/4.5 Biogon, 56x82 with a mm or two in each corner missing. I have one. 47/5.6 Super Angulon. 56x82, crop as desired. With not much gymnastics, lenses as long as ~ 200 mm can be used on the Century. And then there's the 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. The longest lens that's comfortable on it is the 12"/4 TTH Telephoto in barrel.

Who needs an XPan?

While this does no give the actual format of a Xpan, it does double or better the frames a single 120 back can make, and I've always liked shooting with my cropping done in camera.

I am still looking into 6x9cm rangefinder cameras but the inexpensiveness of this hack, could stand in when I do no want to take a full Hasselblad kit into the field, for example, Street Photography in the 120 format with a pair of lenses.

I have a beater Speed Graphic, and while I would like to have a more adjustable field/press camera, I do no want to go down in the sheet size, but that is another topic all together.

I hope this helps.

IMO.

Richard Man · May 21, 2020

What most people do not realize about the XPan is that it's a killer documentary camera in the right hands, For example, look up Bazan's Isla work. Landscapes? Pick up a 617 and never look back.

and this is one of mine from Occupy Oakland

mshchem · May 21, 2020

I have a humble Fujica G617. I love it. This young person has figured out a nice way to get approximately 24 exposures on a single roll of 120. Seems like a A16 back would be a lot easier. But if you had a old beat up A12, go for it.
6x9 Fuji would make a great, choice I have 3 Fuji 6x9 fixed lens cameras

mshchem · May 21, 2020

Richard Man said:
What most people do not realize about the XPan is that it's a killer documentary camera in the right hands, For example, look up Bazan's Isla work. Landscapes? Pick up a 617 and never look back.

and this is one of mine from Occupy Oakland
View attachment 246650

That's a great shot!

Jeremy Mudd · May 21, 2020

eli griggs said:
Perhaps, however, I already have the Hasselblad, and am no interested in buying into a new system, or even the Xpan itself.

Scant dollars need to fall where they can do the most for the money.

IMO.

Understood.

I think I focused on the use of the word "XPAN" and dove down the rabbit hole of making images in the same ratio on the cheap.

That said, if you want to use your existing camera and mess around with shooting in a different ratio, this does look like an interesting way to do it. I've taken an A12 back apart in the past to adjust the counter, but unfortunately I can't offer any experience on how to modify it for this purpose.

Jeremy

eli griggs · May 21, 2020

Jeremy Mudd said:
Understood.

I think I focused on the use of the word "XPAN" and dove down the rabbit hole of making images in the same ratio on the cheap.

That said, if you want to use your existing camera and mess around with shooting in a different ratio, this does look like an interesting way to do it. I've taken an A12 back apart in the past to adjust the counter, but unfortunately I can't offer any experience on how to modify it for this purpose.

Jeremy

Cheers!

Richard Man · May 21, 2020

Thanks @mshchem ! Back to the OP, I love my XPan (II). In fact, throughout the last decades, I have had 2 backup just in case my main XPan dies but then sold them each time for reasons. In any case, I just ordered a C12 and having the parts 3-D printed, as this project sounds really cool. I can take the Hasselblad 203FE and have some of the advantages of the XPan pano format.

eli griggs · May 21, 2020

That's the idea, without the need to fidldle with 35mm, on the camera's side and still getting similar utility out of cost of the 120 film, in camera.

Good luck.

Richard Man · May 21, 2020

@eli griggs my friend is printing out the parts for me, and I should get the C12, maybe even by this weekend. My hope is that by next weekend I will have a 203FE VPan ;-) I will report back my experience.

k.hendrik · May 22, 2020

For all I know there is only one medium format camera who can shoot 24 exp. at 120 film with a 26x56 back; Mamiya RZ67.

eli griggs · May 22, 2020

Richard Man said:
@eli griggs my friend is printing out the parts for me, and I should get the C12, maybe even by this weekend. My hope is that by next weekend I will have a 203FE VPan ;-) I will report back my experience.

That's great, I know others here will be interested as well.

Good luck and post pic when you are able.

Cheers

eli griggs · May 22, 2020

k.hendrik said:
For all I know there is only one medium format camera who can shoot 24 exp. at 120 film with a 26x56 back; Mamiya RZ67.

Well, if Richard Man's conversion, works as it should, you can add the Hasselblad to that list.

in fact, you might see the number of frames to 12 count roll, go up, if this girl's story is any guide.

Let's see what happens. ;-)

eli griggs · May 22, 2020

On the issue of ratio of the frame no matching what you get in a proper X-pan, a little additional cropping may have to take place with the converted backs' images but they should still be enough quality to the images of what you get, to line up nicely between the two formats.

In fact, an adjusted mask should be used, instead of the larger mask shown in the video, if, you want to really get picky about it and figure out how much less of a turn is needed for good spacing and possibly mor frames per roll.

IMO.

120 Hasselblad back converted to Xpan format?

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