Ilford CAP40 questions before purchasing

[arespencer]

I’m looking at a Ilford CAP40 converted for RA4 for sale and just wanted to come here to hopefully get some more insight on it and figure if it’s right for me.

Overall I’m wondering if there’s anything to think about or consider about this unit before purchasing. I price seems ok at least for what I’ve been seeing out there. Fujimoto CP31 have seem very pricey (one on eBay asking over $6k. For something that doesn’t even give you dry to dry that feels too expensive.

I’d have to have this unit shipped from the UK to the states which would be around $800. All in this will come in around $2,500 for the CAP40. If I didn’t have to pay for shipping I’d probably jump on it instantly.

Why do you think Fujimoto CP31 Goes for so much compared to a unit like this CAP40?

The CAP40 has 3 baths so I’m think a develop, stop and then blix stage. Is the process of getting it up and running for a print session just filling up each tank, letting it heat up then after printing draining each bath? What’s the rest of the clean up process like?

I’m currently printing in Jobo drums with a unicolor roller and an array print dryer. So far it’s been pretty great but I’m looking for something to help automate this process on larger printing days. I’d honestly probably still keep the tank setup active for days when I just want/need to print a couple photos.

Would love any information or insight into this unit.

 

[mshchem]

Just say NO.

If you want to process a lot of 8x10 prints fast find some print baskets. Like this, goes in a 1 gallon tank. Roller processors are designed to run constantly, no support.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/156242630643

 

[mshchem]

Jobos aren't great for printing unless you have someone to wash and dry and a crap load of tanks.

 

[btaylor]

I have a Beseler branded dry to dry tabletop RA4 processor. It is very simple to use. Fill the tanks, give it time for the chemicals to get to temp and roll the paper through. I replenish 100ml every 10 8x10 prints. At the end of a session I drain the tanks and then fill them with water and run the machine for a bit, then drain. I find there is no need for a stop bath, the rollers do a sufficient job of squeeging the paper after the developer.

 

[mshchem]

 

[mshchem]

I have a Beseler branded dry to dry tabletop RA4 processor. It is very simple to use. Fill the tanks, give it time for the chemicals to get to temp and roll the paper through. I replenish 100ml every 10 8x10 prints. At the end of a session I drain the tanks and then fill them with water and run the machine for a bit, then drain. I find there is no need for a stop bath, the rollers do a sufficient job of squeeging the paper after the developer.

I've got a Durst machine it's great. I do a more thorough clean up, take out the 3 sets of rollers wash and dry.

I use it for black and white too.

I wouldn't spend multiple thousands of dollars on some huge 40+ year old machine designed for Cibachrome and 50Hz 240V power and try to use for RA4 in the USA.

There's so many easy ways to process RA4 prints. You could literally process a dozen prints at a time in large trays. None of the cool factor though

 

[arespencer]

Jobos aren't great for printing unless you have someone to wash and dry and a crap load of tanks.

I’ve been printing this whole year in Jobos so far. Hasn’t been too much hassle overall. I’ve gone through about almost 30L of developer so far this year in Jobo’s. I do have quite a bit of drums but I find that I really only need 2 full size drums to and about 4 test drums. Drying the drum is pretty fast and easy and I can dry a drum in about a minute (faster than it takes to run a print through the dryer), it’s the lids that are the bigger issue so I will mostly use all my lids during print sessions (about 6 or 8 of them)

I think my biggest kink in my workflow at the moment is not having running water at temp in my garage. I’m currently having to fill up an electric kettle at a hose (or a jug of water) and then wait for it to heat up and manually turn it off when it hits 95°. Then I use that for my pre wet, and washes in the drums.

I have a Beseler branded dry to dry tabletop RA4 processor. It is very simple to use. Fill the tanks, give it time for the chemicals to get to temp and roll the paper through. I replenish 100ml every 10 8x10 prints. At the end of a session I drain the tanks and then fill them with water and run the machine for a bit, then drain. I find there is no need for a stop bath, the rollers do a sufficient job of squeeging the paper after the developer.

Do you know which model? I would love a dry to dry setup in the end I think. At some point I see a colenta in my future if I can get my career to justify and support it or what’s more likely is if I invest into a small colenta I would need to go more all in and setup a rental darkroom in my town. That’s good to know that a roller processor won’t need a stop bath. I’ve been doing single shot develop in tanks and I tried to avoid a stop but I was getting streaks and had to add a vinegar stop bath.

I've got a Durst machine it's great. I do a more thorough clean up, take out the 3 sets of rollers wash and dry.

I use it for black and white too.

I wouldn't spend multiple thousands of dollars on some huge 40+ year old machine designed for Cibachrome and 50Hz 240V power and try to use for RA4 in the USA.

There's so many easy ways to process RA4 prints. You could literally process a dozen prints at a time in large trays. None of the cool factor though

That’s a good point I wasn’t thinking about it being 240V. I think that’s probably why the fujimoto is a popular choice. My printing needs don’t need me to make multiple prints at a time. I shoot fashion, editorial, commercial and personal documentary projects so all my printing just gets scanned and then delivered to clients, magazines or layout for books/zines publishing.

I’m preferring using drums at the moment since I don’t need to worry about ventilation as much as I would trays and I would also need a much larger darkroom space to support the trays in the dark. I basically nailed together a small closet in the corner of my garage where the enlarger sits so I expose the paper in there and load it into drums and then go out into the main part of the garage where I have a work bench with water bath and roller, dryer etc.

 

[arespencer]

View attachment 425825

Interesting, so does this work more or less like the nova slot processor?

 

[OrientPoint]

I have a CAP-40. I got it locally. Conversion to RA4 was simple and it works.

If you can get one for $100 and then throw another $50 of parts into it for RA4 use I'd say go for it. Anything more, I'd suggest taking the advice in previous comments and look at other approaches. These machines are quite old with a fair number of moving parts. Things leak, heater fail and gears break. There's just so much to go wrong, and it will go wrong. I've spent more time patching leaking hoses and fixing failed heating elements on it than running prints. Oh also... they're huge and heavy.

 

[arespencer]

I have a CAP-40. I got it locally. Conversion to RA4 was simple and it works.

If you can get one for $100 and then throw another $50 of parts into it for RA4 use I'd say go for it. Anything more, I'd suggest taking the advice in previous comments and look at other approaches. These machines are quite old with a fair number of moving parts. Things leak, heater fail and gears break. There's just so much to go wrong, and it will go wrong. I've spent more time patching leaking hoses and fixing failed heating elements on it than running prints. Oh also... they're huge and heavy.

These processors seem very hard to find for good deals these days let alone for $100. Are there any older processors that would be worth spending a couple thousand dollars on? There’s a pretty clean Fujimoto cp31 on eBay but $6,000 just seems way too ridiculous for a unit that old even if it is in good condition. And it doesn’t even wash and dry the print.

 

[OrientPoint]

These processors seem very hard to find for good deals these days let alone for $100. Are there any older processors that would be worth spending a couple thousand dollars on? There’s a pretty clean Fujimoto cp31 on eBay but $6,000 just seems way too ridiculous for a unit that old even if it is in good condition. And it doesn’t even wash and dry the print.

I can't say if a CP31 or Durst is worth thousands, but I can state categorically that a CAP-40 is not.

I can't imagine that any decades old mechanical contraption with metal and rubber parts continuously exposed to harsh chemicals, very limited spare parts and no support would be worth a significant investment. Perhaps other commenters will correct me if I'm off base.

 

[mshchem]

Interesting, so does this work more or less like the nova slot processor?

Yes, except you are process 6-8 sheets at a time. I have a Kodak basket designed for a 3 1/2 gallon tank that has 12 slots, you can process sheets back to back too. Calumet used to make baskets for 16x20. Way back the company that made the basket in the Ebay listing made huge baskets. When color prints were 5 or more bathes, fiber base color paper a lot of this was done in the dark in open vertical tanks.

The problem with roller machines is that you're limited by how fast the rollers go and obviously the width.

With multiple baskets you can process a lot quickly.

Of course if you can find a minty roller machine, cheap, and you're a dedicated electromechanical wizard, absolutely.

Jobo Expert drums 3005 work great for 8x10s.

You can use 8x10 sheet film hangers for RC paper as well. 4 hangers at a time in 1 gallon SS tanks. 12 hangers for 3 1/2 gallon tanks.

 

[mshchem]

That’s a good point I wasn’t thinking about it being 240V.

And it's 50Hz. US grid is 60Hz, 240V in US and the Americas is all 60Hz. The rest of the planet is mostly 50Hz.

 

[mshchem]

I could of had, free, a like new Ilford graphics art film processor, this was close to 30 years, darn thing was 36 inch wide or larger. It went to scrap.

Process camera took 3x5 foot film ridiculous!

 

[arespencer]

Yes, except you are process 6-8 sheets at a time. I have a Kodak basket designed for a 3 1/2 gallon tank that has 12 slots, you can process sheets back to back too. Calumet used to make baskets for 16x20. Way back the company that made the basket in the Ebay listing made huge baskets. When color prints were 5 or more bathes, fiber base color paper a lot of this was done in the dark in open vertical tanks.

The problem with roller machines is that you're limited by how fast the rollers go and obviously the width.

With multiple baskets you can process a lot quickly.

Of course if you can find a minty roller machine, cheap, and you're a dedicated electromechanical wizard, absolutely.

Jobo Expert drums 3005 work great for 8x10s.

You can use 8x10 sheet film hangers for RC paper as well. 4 hangers at a time in 1 gallon SS tanks. 12 hangers for 3 1/2 gallon tanks.

Pretty rad for the dip and dunk baskets. Even on the smaller side it sounds like a lot to get setup and operating with that method. Jobo 2800 series drums have been working well for me so far but at some point I would love to automate and speed up the process a bit more and a roller processor especially dry to dry seems like the way. Which all signs keep pointing towards a colenta. I wish they would produce a “desktop” unit. 16” or even 12” width little machine from them would be a dream

 

[mshchem]

Pretty rad for the dip and dunk baskets. Even on the smaller side it sounds like a lot to get setup and operating with that method. Jobo 2800 series drums have been working well for me so far but at some point I would love to automate and speed up the process a bit more and a roller processor especially dry to dry seems like the way. Which all signs keep pointing towards a colenta. I wish they would produce a “desktop” unit. 16” or even 12” width little machine from them would be a dream

There's nothing wrong with the 2800 tanks. With the little divider clips to position the paper

This guy has several of these 2 gallon tanks, too big for my tastes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/127706609718

 

[arespencer]

There's nothing wrong with the 2800 tanks. With the little divider clips to position the paper

This guy has several of these 2 gallon tanks, too big for my tastes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/127706609718

I don’t use any clips in the 2800 tanks. I’m just doing 1 sheet of 10x12 or 11x14 paper at a time.

 

[mshchem]

I don’t use any clips in the 2800 tanks. I’m just doing 1 sheet of 10x12 or 11x14 paper at a time.

 

[Vaughn]

I maintained a CAP-40 for the university way back when. We used it for RA4. Dev - Blix - Water is what we ran. No stop bath. I have a print on the wall that still looks good after 20 years, and I usually used chemicals at near exhaustion. I would use up the chemicals students would leave in the machine -- we figured a five-day max for the lifespan of the chemicals in the CAP-40.

If time spent cleaning is an issue, a CAP-40 is certainly not the answer to that issue.

 

[arespencer]

I maintained a CAP-40 for the university way back when. We used it for RA4. Dev - Blix - Water is what we ran. No stop bath. I have a print on the wall that still looks good after 20 years, and I usually used chemicals at near exhaustion. I would use up the chemicals students would leave in the machine -- we figured a five-day max for the lifespan of the chemicals in the CAP-40.

If time spent cleaning is an issue, a CAP-40 is certainly not the answer to that issue.

Thanks for the info! Did you have to do much work to get the voltage to work or are you not based in the United States?

It’s not so much the time cleaning up after printing that’s an issue so much as it is needing to be involved in every step while processing in drums. For larger printing sessions I’m looking for a processor to automate it a little bit

 

[jvo]

I have a CAP-40. I got it locally. Conversion to RA4 was simple and it works.

If you can get one for $100 and then throw another $50 of parts into it for RA4 use I'd say go for it. Anything more, I'd suggest taking the advice in previous comments and look at other approaches. These machines are quite old with a fair number of moving parts. Things leak, heater fail and gears break. There's just so much to go wrong, and it will go wrong. I've spent more time patching leaking hoses and fixing failed heating elements on it than running prints. Oh also... they're huge and heavy.

I had one, loved it and shared orientpoints' experience... i used it for 20 years till i could no longer get parts... it was great then the rollers started disintegrating. i used it for bw and produced good prints on rc paper, once I figured proper dilutions. I used a formula to print the final print on FB paper.

It saved a lot of time, staring at and rocking trays.

 

[Vaughn]

Thanks for the info! Did you have to do much work to get the voltage to work or are you not based in the United States?

It’s not so much the time cleaning up after printing that’s an issue so much as it is needing to be involved in every step while processing in drums. For larger printing sessions I’m looking for a processor to automate it a little bit

The university (in the US) got the CAP-40 directly from Ilford as a grant before I started working there -- but it was already set-up for US requirements.

Using the CAP-40 is pretty easy...feed in the paper, close the lid, and walk away. The exception was making 4"x24" prints (pano of seven 6x7 negs contact printed)...I had to be at the machine to keep the paper from curling back into the machine and getting grabbed by the rollers.

 

[Dr. no]

Easy to use, and the conversion to RA-4 consists of turning a rheostat down for the temperature. I got one for practically free (but paid for shipping within the US about 15 years ago, but it's been in storage for >10 (I hope the mice have not had too much fun inside) and renovating soon and will have room.
If I remember correctly, there are built-in adjustments for voltage, like other Ilford equipment--reattach the leads and flip a switch for 50-60hz.

But it is certainly not worth thousands.