Light seal or photo lab issue

[abone]

Hello, first post so go easy.
Just ran my first roll of film through new to me Mamiya C33 and have a pinkish vignetting on all the pictures. Photo lab store says it’s a light leak but I have new seals and I’ve run the flashlight inside the body in a dark closet test and can’t see any leakage at all.
Every pic had the same issue.
The film was ten years past its expiry date but can’t see that only affecting the sides of the film
Anything else to check?
Thanks in advance for the help!
PS moderator, if I’m in the wrong forum please redirect

 

[Pieter12]

How was the film stored over those ten plus years? Sealed in foil or not? Could be light or heat or something else got to it before it was loaded in the camera.

 

[abone]

How was the film stored over those ten plus years? Sealed in foil or not? Could be light or heat or something else got to it before it was loaded in the camera.

This particular roll was stored in a metal camera case, in a closet, in its original foil packaging at room temp. The rest of my expired film is in the freezer sealed in a ziplock.
That’s a good point. Perhaps I should run another roll through the camera.

 

[MattKing]

Are these slides or negatives?
Can you share a backlit image of them, revealing the space between frames?
Which store?
As you appear to be a neighbour, I'm personally interested in the answer.
And welcome to Photrio.

 

[abone]

Hi Matt,
They are negatives but I only have the scans via a drive file right now. I’ll go fetch the negatives tomorrow from the store, Kerrisdale Camera. I believe they were developed at their Van lab as the turnaround was only two days.
I just conducted another test and I can’t find any leakage, in the back or bellows.
So it’s gotta be either a development error or film quality.
Can you recommend someone in our area to process 120?
Andy

 

[MattKing]

Hi Matt,
They are negatives but I only have the scans via a drive file right now. I’ll go fetch the negatives tomorrow from the store, Kerrisdale Camera. I believe they were developed at their Van lab as the turnaround was only two days.
I just conducted another test and I can’t find any leakage, in the back or bellows.
So it’s gotta be either a development error or film quality.
Can you recommend someone in our area to process 120?
Andy

I would recommend Kerrisdale Cameras.
After them - because of their favorable pricing and good quality - I would recommend The Lab in Vancouver or, if they are still doing 120 C41 - ABC Colour (as I think they are now known).
Discoloration around the frame edges could very well be a light leak while outside the camera - the proverbial "loose roll".
My C330 also has a habit of not properly latching the back door if the operator - me! - doesn't exercise appropriate care in closing it.
It is worthwhile to wait to see the negatives before coming to any conclusions!

 

[250swb]

A 'fat roll' (where the leader hasn't been tightly wound onto the takeup spool so the whole roll ends up loosely wound and prone to leaks along the edges) was my first though but the OP says each frame is exactly the same and a fat roll usually has less leakage at the beginning. Gases from degrading foam in camera cases can fog film, but this was stored in its wrapper. FWIW converting the images to monochrome does show the vignetting is very mild once you remove the pink, and an easy fix in Photoshop. But to me it doesn't feel like a processing error, more like a a leak maybe, a scanning error,...?

 

[koraks]

Let's see the actual negatives once those become available.

 

[foc]

In my experience, this looks like a film that was subject to excessive heat and/or cold and/or damp/humidity (and/or just poor storage).

The negatives will have a greenish tinge at the film edges and usually all the way through the film.

When we see the negatives, we will know better.

 

[loccdor]

Did you mention what film it is?

I've experienced edge oxidization on 2003 expired Ektachrome 220 in its wrapper. The edges get more exposure to problems than the inside on roll film. This was 100 speed film but the best speed to shoot it at was 40. Colors also needed to be heavily corrected.

Since your film is B&W (chromogenic) I'd assume, the redness on the sides can't really be a light leak. A light leak would show up brownish too. The chemicals toward the sides are just breaking down over time, I think.

 

[abone]

I’ll pick up the negatives today and post pictures of them. The film in question was Ilford 400.

 

[loccdor]

I searched flickr for "Ilford XP2" expired.

Quite a lot of people have your pink edges effect! Both 120 and 35mm. Interesting that some labs seem to pass it through the scanner assuming it is color film.

Holga 120



Olympus OM1



Pinhole



And it's been going on since at least 2009.

A convo from 17 years ago:

• 
  
  moxpox (analog on hold) 17y
  
  
  
  how did you get it so pink?
  
• 
  
  Alberto Casini 17y
  
  
  
  I don't know!!!
  If think a mix among:
  1)expired film
  2)the kind of film
  3)the crazy minilab
  
• 
  
  moxpox (analog on hold) 17y
  
  
  
  i love the pink, its yummy
  

 

[abone]

Sure looks the same as mine. Thanks for this.
I’ll post my negatives later and hopefully my issue is resolved.

 

[abone]

Found it difficult to get the lighting right but this should work. Backside of the negatives. Definitely a greenish tinge at the edges. Space between frames is consistent. Based on the feedback here and another convo with the camera store, it appears the culprit is expired film not stored correctly.

 

[MattKing]

I had thought it was going to be colour film

The film in question was Ilford 400

FWIW, the film is Ilford XP-2 - the chromogenic, C41 processed black and white emulsion.
The C41 process is normally used for colour negative film, but XP-2 is designed for it - which gives you more commercial processing alternatives.
Kerrisdale Cameras are probably scanning it with adjusted colour negative film settings. And as a result the yellow tinge near the edges results in a colour tinge in a scanned (in colour) image.

If you work with it in black and white only, you can probably still get some use of it.
From a screen grab of your negative, inverted and then fiddled with digitally:

Complete with shower curtain induced texture effect .
A darkroom print or better scan would be a good idea. But newer film should be tried.

 

[abone]

Thanks Matt,
My apologies for not stating at the outset it was B&W.
Cool edit and texture addition to my pic!
I used a free version of LR on my phone and was able to get useable images. I’m not worried about this roll however as it was a test shoot to get me up to speed on the C33. If my only issue is expired film, I’m good. The store told me I had a leak so I went on a mission hence my inquiry here. This has been very helpful.
I’ll attached the film box and yes, you got that correct!
Also will attach one of the pics post processing.

 

[MattKing]

We encourage you to keep hanging around, and showing more of what you do.
I'm always happy to see more images of the soon to be replaced George Massey tunnel .
If you need to get full access to the private Conversation function before your post numbers are high enough, Report one of your posts and make the request there, and we will look at it.

 

[loccdor]

Yep I was going to add that when you convert to black and white the effect should be reduced. You can further reduce it by applying a gradient in the dodge or burn filter modes in an image program, or by dodging/burning in the darkroom. Sometimes vignette can be desirable in images with a central subject, so you may not even want to.

 

[koraks]

Thanks for the follow-up @abone, the negatives are conclusive in at least excluding any possibility of scanning/digitization artifacts. Given the unique nature of this film (in a way, it's a color film designed to yield monochrome images), it apparently is liable to a mode of deterioration where the greyscale balance shifts dramatically along the edges of the film that are apparently affected by some kind of oxidation process.

I bet that @Lachlan Young could say a thing or two about what's going on here.

Either way, the problem will go away if you use fresh film.

 

[abone]

Excellent feedback everyone. Great forum you have here!

 

[abone]

We encourage you to keep hanging around, and showing more of what you do.
I'm always happy to see more images of the soon to be replaced George Massey tunnel .
If you need to get full access to the private Conversation function before your post numbers are high enough, Report one of your posts and make the request there, and we will look at it.

I’ll keep hanging around, thanks. Not sure I’ll be here to see that tunnel finished, as I’m old enough to still call it Deas!

I’ve made the request re messaging.

 

[MattKing]

I’ll keep hanging around, thanks. Not sure I’ll be here to see that tunnel finished, as I’m old enough to still call it Deas!

I’ve made the request re messaging.

Received and acted upon - check your Inbox link near the top of the page.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Given the unique nature of this film (in a way, it's a color film designed to yield monochrome images), it apparently is liable to a mode of deterioration where the greyscale balance shifts dramatically along the edges of the film that are apparently affected by some kind of oxidation process.

It's made from a mix of CMY couplers, balanced to give a colour than should be able to be balanced to a neutral grey on colour paper in old optical minilabs. I think it's likely that the way that packaging 120 is done (there's fuller details in Bob Shanebrook's book) and how the edges are fed into the core in a particular way to ensure adequate light-trapping may be playing a role here over time.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Welcome to Photrio!

The light streaks appear to be from the roll not being rolled tightly. The light in coming in from both sides of the roll.

 

[itsdoable]

When I first looked at the negative strip, I would have said it was a processing issue, as XP2 should produce a uniform grey or slightly pick negative regardless of what colour light hit it, where when and how long. Uniform colour streaks like that are often insufficient agitations. But as people mentioned above, it appears to be attributable to aging colour couplers and dyes.

And Kerrisdale Camera is a good shop, they know what they are doing (at least they did back when I frequented them).

I've used XP2 for a while, learn something every day!