Vintage Sheet Film Notch Codes Required - 1920 to 1950

[ozphoto]

I've had a search on other threads to see if this has been asked previously, but couldn't find anything helpful regarding older sheet film notch identification and was hoping someone here might have table/s that relate to older sheet film. I have a list of sheet film notches from 1950 onwards, but haven't been able to find any that are dated earlier, which hampers research on vintage films considerably.

This particular film dates from the early 1920s, and I'm fairly certain it is *not* Kodak, as it doesn't have Kodak printed anywhere along the edges and the notches don't match; their Nitrate films have a V notch on the RHS. The information I have been able to find elsewhere, doesn't match this particular notch code, so I'm beginning to wonder if it may be Ilford (I haven't been able to l locate a chart for their film).

It was shot in South Australia, so could possibly be Ansco, but again, the codes I have found don't match. The photographer has shot quite a bit of this brand of film in 5x4 as well - this sheet though is 5x7.

Any ideas where I might find such tables? Older almanacs, books etc? For the record, it is cellulose nitrate film, which may narrow down the manufacturer, but for now, I'm stumped.

 

[AnselMortensen]

Maybe this will help?

 

[richyd]

Quick search came up with this link from which you may be able to delve into further references.

Photonegatives identification tips and notch codes chart

Tips for determining whether a film negative is cellulose nitrate, including by examining the notch codes and the film type wording on the edges of the negative and using this chart to see if it is safety film or nitrate film.

archivetools.weebly.com

 

[laser]

I can help you with information on Kodak notch codes. Send you email address to: makingKODAKfilm@yahoo.com

I have a three copies for sale of the 1st edition. I don't plan on printing any more. 2nd edition is sold out.

Kodak never used a notch like you are showing.

 

[Don_ih]

Send you email address

Maybe just help everyone for posterity? (I.e., just put the useful information in this thread.)

 

[MattKing]

Maybe just help everyone for posterity? (I.e., just put the useful information in this thread.)

If the source for the answer is a big pdf file, it often can't be uploaded here due to file size restrictions, so it may need to be emailed. But otherwise I agree

 

[ozphoto]

I can help you with information on Kodak notch codes. Send you email address to: makingKODAKfilm@yahoo.com

I have a three copies for sale of the 1st edition. I don't plan on printing any more. 2nd edition is sold out.

Kodak never used a notch like you are showing.

Agree - it's definitely *not* a Kodak notch code. I can't seem to find anything pre 1950 relating to sheet film, and sadly, the ones posted here I have already checked (and printed out for future reference.)

 

[ozphoto]

Quick search came up with this link from which you may be able to delve into further references.

Photonegatives identification tips and notch codes chart

Tips for determining whether a film negative is cellulose nitrate, including by examining the notch codes and the film type wording on the edges of the negative and using this chart to see if it is safety film or nitrate film.

archivetools.weebly.com

Thanks, I checked these out too - and no joy, sadly. However, I have also saved this page and printed out for future reference too.

Given the dead ends I keep hitting, and the fact that none of the information I've found mentions Ilford, I am beginning to wonder if it is Ilford or some other film not as well used in the 1920s.

If I could narrow down an almanac to check that would be ideal - unfortunately the ones on archive.org don't show film notch codes.

 

[Don_ih]

There's the remote possibility of it being printed on the exterior of a box. It seems both Ansco and Kodak did that in at least the 40s.
Is it possible the film was from some now-forgotten company in Australia itself or in Asia somewhere?

 

[ozphoto]

There's the remote possibility of it being printed on the exterior of a box. It seems both Ansco and Kodak did that in at least the 40s.
Is it possible the film was from some now-forgotten company in Australia itself or in Asia somewhere?

AFAIK only Kodak products were produced here in Australia; Australian Kodak Limited was formed in 1908, and remained here for many years making film (including Kodachrome). Ilford had an Australian branch but that didn't appear until 1950, and I'm not sure they produced film here.

Sadly the sheet film has been donated in packets of glassine envelopes - as a commercial photographer he filed them in boxes, numbered to follow his system, so there are no sheet film boxes to view at all.

Looking at the history of Ilford to confirm if they produced film here in Australia, I see that "Selo Limited formed incorporating Ilford, Imperial, Gem and Amalgamated Photographic Manufacturers" in 1920, so perhaps it is Selochrome film.

It is a mystery, and possibly not one that can be solved.

 

[Jojje]

Until yesterday I thought these notch codes are universal, that is, when I loaded 9x12 Agfa Isopan sheet film (best before April 1944) in cassettes for testing. And these circular holes apparent in some old films I encountered when working in archives - I always believed they were some how made during processing.

 

[ozphoto]

Until yesterday I thought these notch codes are universal, that is, when I loaded 9x12 Agfa Isopan sheet film (best before April 1944) in cassettes for testing. And these circular holes apparent in some old films I encountered when working in archives - I always believed they were some how made during processing.

Thanks for that information, @Jojje. I'll add this to my notes - love that information sheet which illustrates the film's notch code and the extra hole.

Since my initial post, I decided to think laterally and did a search for Agfa nitrate sheet film in German, and this provided me with some excellent results.

For anyone who is interested, I've attached a PDF which has been researched by Klaus Kramer (http://www.klauskramer.de/nitrofilm/nitratfilm_top_04-09.html)

It's an excellent source and with additional information such as the image provided by @Jojje, updating this file to include brands, will be even more useful for archivists and photographer's alike.

 

[Craig]

Given the ties to Britain then, I would expect the film is probably British, so Ilford/Selo. Unfortunately, I have no old resources to say what notch codes would have been then.

I wonder if there might be something in old issues of the British Journal of Photography?

 

[ozphoto]

Given the ties to Britain then, I would expect the film is probably British, so Ilford/Selo. Unfortunately, I have no old resources to say what notch codes would have been then.

I wonder if there might be something in old issues of the British Journal of Photography?

I wondered the same, @Craig Unfortunately, I don't have access to any here in South Australia. I even had a look at some old almanacs, but shouldn't find anything in those either.

I have also scoured that well-known auction site for empty boxes, as I had a bit of success with some which showed the notch code of the film it contained. However, more often than not, they simply state "Nitrate" or "Safety" film.

If anyone has an idea of where I might find some old BJP magazines, I'm all ears.

 

[Don_ih]

If anyone has an idea of where I might find some old BJP magazines

@Ian Grant might know something.

 

[Jojje]

Thanks for that information, @Jojje. I'll add this to my notes - love that information sheet which illustrates the film's notch code and the extra hole.

Since my initial post, I decided to think laterally and did a search for Agfa nitrate sheet film in German, and this provided me with some excellent results.

For anyone who is interested, I've attached a PDF which has been researched by Klaus Kramer (http://www.klauskramer.de/nitrofilm/nitratfilm_top_04-09.html)

It's an excellent source and with additional information such as the image provided by @Jojje, updating this file to include brands, will be even more useful for archivists and photographer's alike.

I'm sure this Isopan is "Sicherheitsfilm". ISO 3 seemed about right, there was some fog, but seems to be uniform. Next time some Benzotriazole. Interestingly development times in the instructions are given at 18 degrees Celsius, never seen this. Thickness of film is 0,25mm, modern films usually 0,2mm https://www.flickr.com/photos/jojjek/albums/72177720331665348

 

[ozphoto]

I'm sure this Isopan is "Sicherheitsfilm". ISO 3 seemed about right, there was some fog, but seems to be uniform. Next time some Benzotriazole. Interestingly development times in the instructions are given at 18 degrees Celsius, never seen this. Thickness of film is 0,25mm, modern films usually 0,2mm https://www.flickr.com/photos/jojjek/albums/72177720331665348

That is quite possible; an Agfa catalog dated 1941, shows it as being available in both nitrate and safety film.

 

[ozphoto]

@Ian Grant might know something.

Thank you!