Looking for medium format folding rangefinder 6x7, 6x9, or 6x8

[koraks]

(if all other factors = equal).

But they're not.

 

[Sergey Ko]

I used 2 mentioned here in answers cameras: Voigtlander Bessa II & Moscow-5.
The price difference is 4X, but the quality is slightly differed.
I sold Bessa, just to reduce my collection.
Bessa shot example:

 

[GregY]

Wanted:
Plaubel Makina W67 for 10 € .......

 

[loccdor]

Bigger negavtive = better IQ (if all other factors = equal).

Indeed. The factor likely to be very unequal is the resolving power of the lens, based on both its design and the lack of accuracy in its position.

 

[GregY]

Indeed. The factor likely to be very unequal is the resolving power of the lens, based on both its design and the lack of accuracy in its position.

Yes.... This....

 

[warden]

Indeed. The factor likely to be very unequal is the resolving power of the lens, based on both its design and the lack of accuracy in its position.

Yep - when I look at the design of the folding mechanism on some folders I lose confidence in their ability to accurately position the lens regardless of the size of negative.

 

[GregY]

Yep - when I look at the design of the folding mechanism on some folders I lose confidence in their ability to accurately position the lens regardless of the size of negative.

& that's true of modern cameras, like the Fuji GF670 with a great lens and a folding mechanism that is its achilles tendon.

 

[Chuck1]

There's an ugly makina w67 for about $1500 us @KEH

 

[warden]

There's an ugly makina w67 for about $1500 us @KEH

...and if you look at that mechanism you can see why the lenses on Makinas are solid as a rock when extended. Great design.

 

[itsdoable]

...and if you look at that mechanism you can see why the lenses on Makinas are solid as a rock when extended. Great design.

If you bang the front standard of a Plaubel Makina 67 or 67W when it's open and locked, the rails will notch, and the lens standard will then forever be slightly wobbly. Without a door, the front standard is pretty exposed - and as theses are pretty old, and the chances of a slightly wobbly front standard is pretty high when you encounter a Plaubel Makina 67.

 

[warden]

If you bang the front standard of a Plaubel Makina 67 or 67W when it's open and locked, the rails will notch, and the lens standard will then forever be slightly wobbly. Without a door, the front standard is pretty exposed - and as theses are pretty old, and the chances of a slightly wobbly front standard is pretty high when you encounter a Plaubel Makina 67.

That sounds awful. I never had an issue with mine but I treated them carefully. The lens would be extended just before the shot and then back into the camera it would go. I imagine most folders would fair poorly if you drop or bang the lens while open. Ouch.

 

[GregY]

That sounds awful. I never had an issue with mine but I treated them carefully. The lens would be extended just before the shot and then back into the camera it would go. I imagine most folders would fair poorly if you drop or bang the lens while open. Ouch.

Agreed. Over the years, I've had 3, 67 & 670......they never developed a wobble. As you point out....that's the disadvantage of a folder.....on the other hand.....we know they have substantial advantages.

 

[Klaus_H]

A camera is a precision optical device that should be handled with care. Folding cameras with bellows require special care when in use, otherwise the bellows and folding mechanism are at risk. This statement is based on my experience with the Fuji GS645 Prof, the Voiglaender Bessa II, the AGFA Isolette, and the Agfa Super Isolette. If robustness is a critical feature of the camera, I can recommend the FUJI GSW 690.

 

[RezaLoghme]

The idea was to, say, replicate my Leicaflex SL experience...a cheap body with good lens, not-square format, silver vintage-y body, and easy to handle. The SL has a built-in meter, of the simple kind, but it seems it does its job ok.

Some camera that can get lost, bumped, stolen, while travelling. And is different to my 35mm and digital collection, even from a differnet brand.

 

[Don_ih]

Some camera that can get lost, bumped, stolen, while travelling.

Seriously, though - what you just said is nothing like what you originally asked for.

 

[RezaLoghme]

Seriously, though - what you just said is nothing like what you originally asked for.

in what way?

 

[koraks]

Original set of requirements:

Built-in exposure meter (TTL or reliable integrated meter)
Fast standard lens (ideally f/3.5 or faster, 2.8 ideally)
Compact/folding form factor
Good reliability and parts support

New requirements:

a cheap body with good lens, not-square format, silver vintage-y body, and easy to handle.

Then in the interim you added:

Lens should be wide angle (street).

And of course you've stipulated a vague kind of inflexibility with regard to your shifting goalposts by indicating it's "against the spirit" when someone suggested compromising on one criterion.

I think to most people this will look like someone posing a problem you don't want to be solved.

I personally don't think there's a camera that meets your requirements. And having witnessed an endless series of your posts about buying new cameras, I'm convinced that you'll triumphantly barge into your own thread to announce you've just found *exactly* what you were looking for, which happens to meet not a single one of your requirements.

So really, people can just continue to list random cameras of any format since it's not going to make a difference anyway.

Keep in mind that in engaging the community with your questions, there's an emotional or psychological credit you either build or consume. So far, I see a lot of consuming taking place and not a whole lot of building. I'm in fact surprised that there are any people left here who are willing to suggest options to you.

He's giving us the run-around I'm sure, bordering on trolling.

"Trolling" involves a particular intent and I'd like to state for the record that we (perhaps against better judgement) continue to grant @RezaLoghme the benefit of the doubt.

 

[hardly any color]

Wanted:
Plaubel Makina W67 for 10 € .......

Seems like it

 

[Don_ih]

I think to most people this will look like someone posing a problem you don't want to be solved.

Ring the bell, we have a winner!

 

[RezaLoghme]

Original set of requirements:


New requirements:


Then in the interim you added:


And of course you've stipulated a vague kind of inflexibility with regard to your shifting goalposts by indicating it's "against the spirit" when someone suggested compromising on one criterion.

I think to most people this will look like someone posing a problem you don't want to be solved.

I personally don't think there's a camera that meets your requirements. And having witnessed an endless series of your posts about buying new cameras, I'm convinced that you'll triumphantly barge into your own thread to announce you've just found *exactly* what you were looking for, which happens to meet not a single one of your requirements.

So really, people can just continue to list random cameras of any format since it's not going to make a difference anyway.

Keep in mind that in engaging the community with your questions, there's an emotional or psychological credit you either build or consume. So far, I see a lot of consuming taking place and not a whole lot of building. I'm in fact surprised that there are any people left here who are willing to suggest options to you.


"Trolling" involves a particular intent and I'd like to state for the record that we (perhaps against better judgement) continue to grant @RezaLoghme the benefit of the doubt.

Hi, the original and extra requirements are not mutually exclusive or contradicting. I am looking for a MF (which I dont own at the moment) with a silver, 60s vibe which I can carry around and which will survive some trips, and if stolen (happened to me) or lost (same) I dont want to be on Leica M6 cost level of replacement. I had cameras without exposure meters and somehow they never clicked with me. It should not have a tele lens (of which I own too many already) and also it should be as easy or easier to carry than my R (SLR) bodies, so I have outruled TLRs for example (which i generally like).

I do get it that most vintage cameras come without inbuilt exposure meter. I know some here will tell me to "man up" and learn Sunny 16 or clip some AliExpress EM onto the body.

I could keep on using my Leicaflex SL (fit all rerquierements besides MF).

I could try and become friends with a Mamiya 6/Six (the 1950s one, I like most, from all which were suggested), and work with some kind of external range finder. But in European Union they seem to be rare. i think I would want the IVB or later (with square windows and angular body trim). On my doorstep, that would be 300-400 EUR including all shipping-related charges and whatnot. Thats ok.


On a personal note I cannot see how my threat differs from many similar ones in our recent past. So lets all stay level-headed.

 

[koraks]

On a personal note I cannot see how my threat differs from many similar ones in our recent past.

They are very similar to your threads from a recent past. They are very dissimilar from threads of other people as they generally fit one or several of the following patterns:
* All relevant requirements were listed immediately
* Requirements were realistic
* In case of unrealistic requirements, poster accepted this and indicated to either compromise, or drop the question

 

[BrianShaw]

Freudian slip? To some these threads seem a threat; to others not so much. There are more important things in life to take so seriously…

 

[Prest_400]

Keep in mind that in engaging the community with your questions, there's an emotional or psychological credit you either build or consume. So far, I see a lot of consuming taking place and not a whole lot of building. I'm in fact surprised that there are any people left here who are willing to suggest options to you.


"Trolling" involves a particular intent and I'd like to state for the record that we (perhaps against better judgement) continue to grant @RezaLoghme the benefit of the doubt.

Thank you Koraks for calling it out. Although the camera discussions can be very useful, these threads follow attention economy practices. More than trolling, rage baiting, bait and switch tactics and a blanket engagement farming.
@BrianShaw IMO not threats to being a camera brand person or group, but I think it involves forum discussion quality.

 

[zfshi]

To my knowledge the only Fujifilm GF670 (alias Voigtländer Bessa III 667) will fulfill all your requirements

Fuji GF670 Review: 11 Reasons Why You Should Buy! - Leica Blog (Matt Osborne)

Here is my Fuji GF670 Review / Voigtlander Bessa III Review - Medium Format Rangefinder Film Camera

mrleica.com

Also with wide-angle lens as 670W

​

photokina 2010: Fujifilm GF670W Professional (alias Voigtländer Bessa III 667W) (2x aktualisiert) - photoscala

Die Japaner geben das analoge Mittelformat nicht auf. Auf der photokina 2010 in Köln will Fujifilm mit der GF670W Professional eine Weitwinkelkamera fürs Mittelformat 6x7 mit Festbrennweite 4,5/55 mm und gekoppeltem Entfernungsmesser zeigen die wird es auch bei uns geben, aber nicht von Fujifilm:

www.photoscala.de

I have a Fujifilm GF670W and the lens is very sharp.

 

[itsdoable]

If a Leicaflex SL with lens is in your "cheap" category, then a Plaubel Makina 67 is not that far off, about 2x $ - for 5x the negative size

There are only 2 lines that will fit all your criteria, Fujifilm's GF670s and Plaubel Makina's 67's. Fujifilm's is 2x the $. There were a hand full of selenium celled folders, but none of those meters work anymore, and very few were larger than 6x6.

A compromise is to get one of the many decent meter-less 6x9 folders, and add a external hot shoe meter from one of the many current Voightlander VC copies, you could do that for less than your Leicaflex + lens.

PS: I ignored your requirements for parts support, and that is not possible with old discontinued cameras...