'Sure Be Nice If Ektachrome Wasn't the Only One Available...

[Wayne]

They should - as I posted:

I thought you were trying to debunk that notion not prove it

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

Well I agree with you ... that's why I prefer Provia! But the Ektachrome mafia keep telling me that in fact Ektachrome is more accurate (hence my word "neutral") ...

My preference order is Provia, Velvia and Ektachrome only as a last resort!

E100 certainly is more neutral in its tonality and saturation, and that's what makes it very suitable for the landscape and scenic genre. Its 'punch' can be adjusted with a polariser or underexposure. It is noticeably less prone to blue than Velvia, but will still require warming-up in emergent bright sun.

Kodak's VS100 (very saturated) chrome film was possibly the worse emulsion ever to be run through my camera. I wasn't particularly flattering of it in a published review in Australian Photography in 2004. Not much better when it was being printed to the Ilfochrome Classic process: just 2 prints were produced. We observed at the time it was very red-channel heavy, although the whites were very clean. But in a single swipe, the film's palette just did not look right. It was never used again after August 2004.

____________________________________________________________
Photo: Rainforest idyll.
Pentax 67 + SMC-P 45 f4; E100, full POL, diffuse light

 

[MattKing]

I thought you were trying to debunk that notion not prove it

I was just pointing out that some of my examples faithfully reproduced a scene illuminated by light with a fair amount of blue in it - in two cases unfiltered open shade.
And by "faithfully reproduced", I mean no blue added.

 

[MattKing]

OOPS - my apologies.
I just re-checked the notes on a number of those posted images, and realize that two that I thought were originally on Ektachrome were actually on negative film. I've deleted those two from my earlier post, and edited the post accordingly.

 

[Wayne]

OOPS - my apologies.
I just re-checked the notes on a number of those posted images, and realize that two that I thought were originally on Ektachrome were actually on negative film. I've deleted those two from my earlier post, and edited the post accordingly.

Getting old sucks, doesn't it. lol

 

[F4U]

When you think about it, this is the after-times of the "digital apocalypse". About the end of the last century, almost overnight digital photogrphy wiped out the conventional suppliers. We lost everything. Kodachrome, Infrared, and just about all the manufacturers. Then the 2008 crash practically wiped out everything. Now we are in the "aftertimes". The supplies we have available now are as good as it can get. and I expect we may eventually lose even that. Alaris, for instance, could decide their interest in Kodak is not suiting the return expectations of the money changers, and get rid of it like a bad girlfriend. It's one day at a time from here on in. Same for the other manufacturers. So we make-do. Blessings, no mater how small, should be counted.

 

[mshchem]

Getting old sucks, doesn't it. lol

Beats the alternative

 

[MattKing]

Getting old sucks, doesn't it. lol

More to do with still being uncomfortable with this new-fangled business of depending on digital for organization of mixes of film, darkroom and purely digital photographic stuff.
Some stuff that has been digitized has more easily accessible information associated with it than other stuff does, so a search based on film type isn't as easy as it should be.

 

[Chan Tran]

So unless having a lot of choice means lower price it would be nice but still I believe I use Ektachrome rather than others.

 

[npl]

There is a lot of samples of Aerocolor IV (which is what Washi X is) cross-processed in E-6 floating on the net...

Here is a thread on Photrio doing C-41 reversal with Aerocolor...

Thanks. Looked up some E6 examples, and let's just say it's not an Ektachrome substitute

 

[paddycook]

The blue world doesn't exist with the proper warming filter.

My point exactly. Why should we have to use a warming filter. Why can it not just be properly balanced for daylight?

 

[ChrisGalway]

My point exactly. Why should we have to use a warming filter. Why can it not just be properly balanced for daylight?

Have you tried Provia 100f?

 

[paddycook]

Have you tried Provia 100f?

Yes I have a large stock of it which I am now using very infrequently given that it looks like Fuji have given up on supplying it to the US. I love Provia! Better color and way sharper than Ektachrome.

 

[ChrisGalway]

I've bought 4 rolls of 35mm Provia 100f in the past two weeks, average of €30 per roll delivered, and quite unbelievably, Amazon.com (US site) has Provia 100f, Velvia50, and Velvia 100 for sale in 120 size in the US ... and I thought Velvia 100 was banned! https://www.amazon.com/s?k=provia+1...ps,301&ref=nb_sb_ss_p13n-pd-dpltr-ranker_1_11 . Expensive though!

 

[paddycook]

I've bought 4 rolls of 35mm Provia 100f in the past two weeks, average of €30 per roll delivered, and quite unbelievably, Amazon.com (US site) has Provia 100f, Velvia50, and Velvia 100 for sale in 120 size in the US ... and I thought Velvia 100 was banned! https://www.amazon.com/s?k=provia+100f&crid=BPG6858JMMPE&sprefix=provia+100f,aps,301&ref=nb_sb_ss_p13n-pd-dpltr-ranker_1_11 . Expensive though!

Yes $30 a roll is where I tap out. I’m not even prepared to pay the current US price for Ektachrome. Once my existing stock is all used up it’s no more E6 for me.

 

[ChrisGalway]

Roll on LuckyChrome 200? A third supplier from China might bring the prices down.

Dream on!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Provia sharper than current Ektachrome 100? - dream on. Fuji's finest grain chrome film was actually Astia 100F.

And getting "lucky" with a Chinese substitute? Yeah, that will take quite a bit of luck.

Even if 35mm color film gets up to a dollar a shot, the cure for that is to shoot 8X10 chrome film instead, which is getting around $40 a shot.
That will make you think twice before punching the cable release! I just thawed another box for an impending trip, purchased back when it was a fourth of today's pricing.

 

[AZD]

E100 certainly is more neutral in its tonality and saturation, and that's what makes it very suitable for the landscape and scenic genre. Its 'punch' can be adjusted with a polariser or underexposure. It is noticeably less prone to blue than Velvia, but will still require warming-up in emergent bright sun.

Some recent C41 pics with polarizer reminded me how much difference a polarizer can make. Next time I use E100 I’ll use one where it makes sense. Unfortunately that puts it closer to EI 25. So like Kodachrome, but not…

Even if 35mm color film gets up to a dollar a shot, the cure for that is to shoot 8X10 chrome film instead, which is getting around $40 a shot.

I’ve been wanting to try E100 in 8x10 for a while. Finally comfortable enough with the camera itself to (probably) avoid major user error and financial ruin. And there’s a competent lab half a mile from my house. I don’t have a good excuse to avoid it much longer. It’s not going to get cheaper.

 

[ChrisGalway]

And getting "lucky" with a Chinese substitute? Yeah, that will take quite a bit of luck.

Agreed but one can dream/speculate.

After all, it was reported that Yes!Star had started manufacturing Fujicolor negative films (for Fujifilm), Shanghai have released Shenguang 400 CN film and Lucky have are selling pre-production samples of their "new" ISO 200 CN film. And there are teasers from Light Lens Lab, a new player. Given the expertise in China for manufacturing technology, and the enormous investment in R&D inside China, it's quite possible that we might see an E6 transparency film made in China one day ... conceivably even revivals of Fujifilm's classics, under licence. Not next year, for sure, but in 5 years? The Chinese economy is still growing.

 

[koraks]

it was reported that Yes!Star had started manufacturing Fujicolor negative films (for Fujifilm)

But that turned out to be a misunderstanding, if I recall correctly.

it's quite possible that we might see an E6 transparency film made in China one day

It's possible, but even (especially) the Chinese don't waste money on something that's not going to pay off. So they'd have to be damn sure that the (significant) investment could be recovered in a short timeframe.

As it stands, there seems to be ONE manufacturer of color film in China and they're presently at the level of 1970-1980s consumer-/supermarket-grade CN film. A long way to go to a decent E6 product, if that's what they're planning for. Taking into account also that the CN film manufactured by Lucky might lean heavily on Kodak IP acquired some 25 years ago. IDK if any E6-related IP ever transferred to Lucky at all.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

But that turned out to be a misunderstanding, if I recall correctly.


It's possible, but even (especially) the Chinese don't waste money on something that's not going to pay off. So they'd have to be damn sure that the (significant) investment could be recovered in a short timeframe.

As it stands, there seems to be ONE manufacturer of color film in China and they're presently at the level of 1970-1980s consumer-/supermarket-grade CN film. A long way to go to a decent E6 product, if that's what they're planning for. Taking into account also that the CN film manufactured by Lucky might lean heavily on Kodak IP acquired some 25 years ago. IDK if any E6-related IP ever transferred to Lucky at all.

Much of Chinese investment is financed through their government that can write off losses as they have proved with disastrous over-investments in building home construction and high-speed railroads that lose money evey day. If Lucky Film or someone else there can get some government official to underwrite the investment, they could surprise us, and Kodak.

 

[MattKing]

Much of Chinese investment is financed through their government ......

The role of government involvement in the economy is far too political for Photrio - going forward, any discussion of that needs to go elsewhere.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I doubt color film would even register a blip with CCP priorities in terms of its export potential to the West. There might be home demand, and in neighboring SE Asian countries.

Anecdotally, I've been surprised by just how connected some Chinese nationals are to film photography. Not only are large format cameras still being made there, but I've had Chinese tourists here spot me with my gear. In one case, an individual who spoke no English noted the two ends of a monorail projecting from my top pack flap, and asked in the only common denominator word he knew, "Sinar?" I smiled back, and then he gave me a thumbs up. That kind of response has actually happened quite a few times.

One of my favorite instances was when an old man with a white beard, in traditional Kashmir garb, holding a long walking stave, was hiking with his extended family on one of our local ridges. I had my 8x10 propped up near the trail. He asked if his grandson could have the experience of looking through a "real camera" (his words, not mine). I obliged, so he put his grandson on his shoulders to take a peek beneath the dark cloth. Then in the following conversation, I learned that the old man was the CEO of a local electronics Tech firm, and that my camera brought back memories of him walking through the Himalayas with a big camera of his own.

 

[XyDark]

Agreed but one can dream/speculate.

After all, it was reported that Yes!Star had started manufacturing Fujicolor negative films (for Fujifilm), Shanghai have released Shenguang 400 CN film and Lucky have are selling pre-production samples of their "new" ISO 200 CN film. And there are teasers from Light Lens Lab, a new player. Given the expertise in China for manufacturing technology, and the enormous investment in R&D inside China, it's quite possible that we might see an E6 transparency film made in China one day ... conceivably even revivals of Fujifilm's classics, under licence. Not next year, for sure, but in 5 years? The Chinese economy is still growing.

A guy on reddit translated a Lucky press conference a few weeks back, in the post Lucky stated that there wasn't any technical/material barriers for them to make a slide film (they had previously made one called "Lucky Chrome 100CH"). If there's enough demand for their new colour negative then they'll potentially either make a new one for cinema use, or just reintroduce their old 100CH film. Updates on this are stated to come out sometime before the end of the year.

Personally I'm optimistic that they'll make a new slide film, but it most likely won't drop until like 2027 or so. Probably even later.

 

[BHuij]

The problem is the present version isn't neutral. It's just a mass of blue everywhere you look - blue highlights, blue shadows. It's awful. And it lacks acuity. It's nothing like the Ektachrome I remember from the 80s and 90s.

You know, I've seen this issue reported in a few places, and even gotten a roll back from that lab that skewed pretty heavily blue once.

But I've also gotten results out of current production E100 that looked fantastic with no blue cast, even in the shadows. No warming filter or anything. The difference? When I develop it myself, it seems to come out better.



That shouldn't make sense. I definitely have worse controls on temp and time and chemical pH and whatnot than a lab should. And half the time these days I'm actually using E6(-) development where I do HC-110 first dev, light fogging instead of chemical fogging, and ECN-2 chems the rest of the way through. Still better results than I seem to get from labs. My sample size is relatively small. A few rolls of 35mm, a couple rolls of 120, and maybe 10 sheets of 4x5. But I seem to consistently avoid the blue cast since I went in-house with my development. Can't explain it.