Stump Rocky Gorge
esanford

Stump Rocky Gorge

I hope to start some useful discussion with this print. This is a gelatin silver print made from a digital negative. The image was shot on TRI-X film around 1991. I inadvertenly scratched the negative. I failed to remove the scratches using all manner of conventional methods. After attending Dan Burkholder's class on digital negatives, I scanned the negative on an Epson 1640 SU scanner at 1600 DPI. I then used photoshop to remove the vertical scratches that were in the upper left quadrant of the print (i had previously made an otherwise acceptable wet print). I used photoshop to match the bad wet print. I then reversed the image and printed a negative at 300 DPI on Pictorico PGHG film using my Epson 1280 printer. I then went into the darkroom and did a contact test print with the PGHG and Ilford Gallerie Grade 3 paper using my Beseler enlarger and Zone VI cold light. After determining the correct time, I printed a final "fine print", fixed it twice, toned it lightly in selenium and washed it for 1.5 hours in an Oriental Archival Print washer. It is now mounted and ready for display. Is this print acceptable as a conventional print even though I photoshoped it to remove scratches? What are thoughts on the interim digital negative to get to the final gelatin silver print? Is it acceptable to submitted it in the critique or standard galleries. I am on record all over APUG for keeping digital off the site; I don't like negative scans, and I don't submit nor do I comment on them. I am really looking for your advice and critique of this process. It clearly has implications in the A vs. D. debate. Could this be a fair compromise.... please don't hold back, I have thick skin and all comments are welcomed...
Thanks!!!!
Location
Laurel Maryland
Equipment Used
Mamiya RB67/ 90mm
Exposure
1/2 sec @ F22
Film & Developer
TRI-X and HC110 Normal-Pictorico PGHG interim digital negative
Paper & Developer
Ilford Gallerie Grade 3 for two minutes with Zone VI developer
Lens Filter
K2
Graham, thanks for commenting... As you point out, this whole thing presents an interesting conundrum. I think your decision should turn on what your family wants... If your mother would like a print to display or to provide copies to others , I think that scanning it and repairing it in photoshop is perfectly ok because the historical information is preserved for your family.... In 75 years, nobody in your family will care whether or not it is authentic. If you want to be a purist and do the work in analogue, that is an ever better solution because once you have the negative repaired, you can make many high quality gelatin silver prints.

Now let's talk about what the possibilities are vis-a-vis what I have done with my stump. My situation is not too different then yours. Remember, I did not make an inkjet print from my negative. I made a gelatin silver print. The only difference was instead of hand re-touching the actual negative (because I don't have the skills) as you might do with yours, I scanned the negative and re-touched it digitally. I then created a paper negative which I used to contact print in the dark room... Other than remove the scratches, I still ended up with an authentic print from the original negative. In your case, you plan to re-touch manually.... I believe that you can use the same process that I did... i.e. scan the negative and re-touch it in photoshop... print a digitial negative using Pictorico and then go into the darkroom, as I did, and print a gelatin silver print. I think that you are arguing that any digital intervention somehow kills the authenticity of the print. Is that what you are saying?
 
Nice print, good way to get to it. I can't actually see why doing the retouching in PS is worse than doing it with pencils and Adams machines (never heard of either).

I can make a comparison to the production of books. If we were to say that the gutenberg method, or even the "scribe" method, were "better" ways to produce books, then we would have a underevolved society where knowledge was for the elite only. Technical evolution changes things.

Retouching a neg "manually" with pencils etc is, whichever way you look at it, a way to correct imperfections to the technology you're using. While I have full respect for Charles and many other photographers of the "old school", they have, I believe, mastered their craft out of necessity, not out of artistic freedom. If negatives could be created that were like diamonds, hard and durable, one would find little need to learn how to retouch scratches, manually or digitally.

As technology gets better and cheaper, we will, trust me, create digital negatives that surpass the old technique of making prints, copying to film and reprinting. Graham's statement that the analogue route will result in better quality might be true today (will Sandy King agree?), but I don't believe it will be in the future. Only the parts that need to be analogue, like making paper, coating it, etc will continue to be so.

Just my opinion, though, I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything. :smile:
 
Maybe we need a "Gray Area" gallery to go with the "Gray Area" forum.
 
"devoted to traditional (non-digital) photographic processes" that's the charter we've had for over 3 years. I really don't want to go down the path of welcoming hybrid work in the general areas of the site. APUG does not need to be all things to all people. It is a tough call since what you've done has a lot of traditional involvement, but I believe images like this should be posted in the grey area as a file attachment.
 
Sean, thanks for your comment. Fundamentally, I have to agree with you. I got just what I wanted out of posting this image....discussion. My desire to "finish" an image that I like is clearly outweighted by the need to stay analogue pure. Consequently, I will not post it for "comment". Having said that, I believe that negative scans should be kept to an absolute minimum because I believe they "cross the line". However, I believe that slide scanning is consistent with the rules because a transparency is fundamentally a complete image.
 
One issue is the gallery does not have clear guidelines for posting, something I need to work on in the future.. I am not asking you to remove it, what you've done is interesting and the resulting discussion is important..
 
Hello folks,

Though I respect Sean's standpoint on apug not having to be "all things to all people", I have to disagree with his position on what he called the "hybrid" process. In my opinion, the only way to safeguard the availability of analog materials and sources, and with these, the analog process as a whole, is by ensuring that their application remains viable. I'm hardly a fan of digital photography - the whole shpiel just doesn't "talk" to me. However, I can't deny that the availability of all things analog is growing thinner with each passing day. I feel that continuity of the traditional darkroom greatly depends on furthering the "hybrid" process so that it might feed from the new mainstream customer.

If a "hybrid process" could've saved Agfa Rodinal, I for one would have been all for it.

Cheers
Daniel
 

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Technical Gallery
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esanford
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digital_imaged_stump_upload_vers.jpg
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Date taken
Sat, 20 August 2005 2:05 PM
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