[This thread is a continuation/update on the thread regarding the third annual meeting.]

I went ahead and reserved the Newport Visual Arts Center for the second weekend in October, 2011. If Robert comes up with another venue, I can transfer the weekend to someone else or host an additional photography event, but I didn't want to take the chance that the space wouldn't be available. We are absolutely, positively, fur shur going to have a 2011 event

I hope that everyone who's interested will weigh in with ideas and/or encouragement.

d

Thanks for being so proactive Denise. I guess I will bow out of my part.
Robert

OK...I was going to post this in the other thread, but I guess it really belongs here.

I want to follow up on one of Robert's posts near the end of the 2010 Humboldt thread, but this has turned into a long-ish post, so please bear with me...

First, I'm inclined to agree that an association with an educational institution is a valuable thing. Robert, I don't think you should give up on what you've been working on...I don't think Denise's intent was to pre-empt you, so much as to simply ensure that the Newport VAC would be available if Newport became the choice. At least that's how I read it.

Second, with that being said, my vote is for Eugene or Ashland. Much as I liked the VAC when I was there for Vaughn's carbon workshop, it really seems like it would be a different audience. IMO, in Newport you'd be more likely to get an arts-oriented audience who are already "in-the-know" to some extent, vs. at a college or university, you might get more students (and teachers) who may only be aware of the basics of B&W shooting & printing, or only focused on digital capture / processing / printing. Having these gatherings be about non-traditional, non-conventional methods and processes broadens the horizons. I also think being able to see the finished product makes it much more real than reading about it in a book. Speaking from my own experience, I might never have found out or bothered to learn about carbon if I hadn't seen Vaughn's demo at WSUV in 2009. Now, I'm slightly obsessed with it.

Third, with regards to digital...I know and understand why APUG is the way it is, and has to be that way in terms of an internet discussion forum. As a practical matter, though, I think it must be acknowledged that hybrid workflows are becoming a real and valid part of photography, and must be addressed. Obviously, purely digital topics like Photoshop retouching methods, color management, noise reduction, etc. are best left to other venues, but topics like digital negatives, film scanning, multiple-color gum using color separations from Photoshop, heck, even QTR curves, since they apply both to digi-negs and multiple-shades-of-black inkjet output, which is not really mainstream, even if it isn't analog.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents (really probably 4, by now).

--Greg

I saw Robert's post right before bedtime last night, but decided to wait until morning to reply -- and lo and behold, Greg did it for me perfectly. There's a lot to be said for procrastination.

Yes, I'm just holding out Newport in case another venue doesn't present itself.

I'm in complete agreement about targeting the new-to-darkroom crowd. I lab-assisted a toy camera workshop last spring, and the instructor and I were a little taken aback by the lack of basic film and darkroom knowledge. We rallied though, and the workshop was as much about learning how to load film into a camera and onto a developing reel, plus develop-stop-fix-wash, as anything else. Great time had by all. That's when I decided all my workshops will start from the beginning.

When we start advertising next year's event, I'd like to promote heavily on the opportunity to learn the 'Basic basics'. I think we could get beginners to come to Newport for the weekend. It's more or less central to educational institutions in Portland, Corvallis, and Eugene. Ashland would be cool, and is closer to the audience Vaughn was hoping to attract to Humboldt.

And remember, beginners aren't just kids. There are a lot older people who always planned to learn photography after retirement. They saw photography go digital as they were waiting, but I talk to a lot (and I mean a lot ) who are seriously thinking about learning film and darkroom, usually with a digital (i.e. hybrid) component. Of course, the rub is that the learning opportunities are drying up. That's exactly where we come in!

d

Copied from the 2010 thread

I'm from Yakima, would like to show up next year, but I know how my schedule works for these sorts of things ;-( I've got relatives in Eugene, and love Newport, have never been to Florence or for that matter Depot Bay or any of the other way interesting places on the coast of Oregon. So,,, there you have it. A vote for the Oregon coast, or a bit inland. (not much help, huh? ;-)

Hi Grif,

Thanks for moving your post. Actually, any weigh-in is a great help. I hope you can make it out this way next October, and that a long notice makes scheduling easier. I might as well get a few ideas down on e-paper while they're still rattling around fresh in my skull.

Rich Bergeman teaches a wildly successful workshop at the Newport Photography Workshops. He's calls it 'Exposing and Composing' and it's for all the people who want to take their cameras beyond point-and-shoot. Turns out most current photographers aren't even familiar with the terms 'shutter speed' and 'aperture', much less able to manipulate them with intent. Rich gets mostly digital camera users, but I think the situation is magnified for film cameras. We need to have a presentation on camera control basics, with a part that relates the differences, as well as similarities, between film and memory card cameras. Along with that, we should have as large as possible display of cameras. I could bring at least a dozen myself.: 35mm slr, 35mm rangefinder, twin lens reflex, panorama, Kodak Brownie, Holga, and a half dozen LF formats, two 120 rangefinders on a side-by-side stereo bar. I have just finished constructing a Frankenstein 11 x 14 camera from various parts I've been collecting for three years. (I'm very proud!) It works great, but I only have one film holder and those puppies are well outside my budget. We need to have someone demonstrate building diy LF film holders. Needless to say, we need to have demonstrations of both roll film and sheet film loading and development. And, as Greg pointed out, lots and lots of people bringing and showing their work in as many different processes as possible. Maybe a talk on the history of photography. (the condensed version!)

Actually, the above, and some really nifty fieldtrips, and time to socialize (in my opinion, these things are as much about people as process) might round out a very nice weekend.

Just my random thoughts to start a discussion.
Denise

I'm going to bump this back to the front page. If most people are like me, they don't always look at the Groups when they surf into APUG for a minute. Robert, I'd love to hear your ideas. The ones I posted were meant just as a kick-start, not as the final word on anything. Have you got potential speakers lined up already?
d

Denise, well, I'm back into "photography", as apposed to taking pictures. Really bad at it, was almost getting reasonable results back in the early 70's. Nice little point and shoot Sony for point/shoot. A couple of F's, one was new in 71? and has been with me the whole time. A minox, a minolta 16 or two, a really cute speed graflex 6x9? A Linholf Technika 4x5 with an extra roll back. A 5x7 Burke and James I've had since the 70's , and have never mounted a lens. A graflex 22 tlr, couple of Argus Cxxx. An Orbit 4x5....... Oh,,, incase you didn't pick up on it... a terminal packrat.

Really miss Kodacolor X. Best camera I ever got to have a relation with, was a nice three lens kit of a Mamiya C33 on loan while my buddy took a govermnent paid vacation in Asia.

I think a balance needs to be struck between having too basic a focus, and being too advanced, so that both newbies and advanced practicioners feel welcome, that there's something for everybody, that there's a reason to attend.

I was thinking about it last night, and I had an idea for an "Intro to Alt" seminar. Not so much about the processes in general, though there could be an overview, but the nuts and bolts that it seems many people get hung up on: paper, sizing, where to get supplies, safety and environmental considerations, rod/brush/float coating, process calibration, etc.

Some other topics to spark discussion...I certainly don't have any answers to these questions, and I'm not sure I even have opinions about them, at the moment:
1) Ratio of seminar/lecture-type sessions vs. demonstrations vs. hands-on opportunities vs. in-the-field
2) Should there be some organizing theme around which all the sessions are built and build upon each other, or will it (should it?) be just a pastiche of topics from which attendees can sample as they please?
3) If I remember correctly, there were between 20-30 people at Vancouver in 2009. It sounds like Robert would like to see significantly higher attendance in 2011 (if I'm reading his posts right). How many people can the VAC in Newport accommodate vs. some other venue? And what is a realistic attendance figure for 2011?

Just keeping the conversation going...

--Greg

Good morning, Denise, Greg, and Grif;

It is surprising to hear discussion already for 2011. Then again, it is also nice to know that people have the confidence to project out that far in advance. This bodes well.

The Newport VAC (Visual Arts Center) in Oregon is a very nice facility, and it does have a dark room that has been resurrected. The main classroom we used did hold our 30 or so participants back in 2008, and it could have easily taken another 10 or so. The view of the Pacific Ocean from the windows was inspiring along with being a distraction. I enjoyed it. And Newport is the ancestral home of Mo's Chowder. If the end decision is to return to Newport, I hope to be there again. There are many facets of Newport I have yet to explore. And perhaps that harbor seal that popped up beside me while we were on the piers will do it again long enough for me to get a photograph this time. Denise also was there to see that seal.

Actually, regardless of the final chosen location, I would like to be there next year. This year I am already committed to another activity. Second year in a row that this has happened.

Enjoy; Ralph Javins, Latte Land, Washington

Hi Ralph! Yes, I remember the seal . It's very nice to hear that you will try to be at our get-together next year. You were missed in Vancouver. I know it seems like a long notice for next year, but I'm coming to terms with how quickly schedules fill up. It's not just attendees, but presenters and facilities. I'm very glad I already paid the reservation fee at Newport. It's become the best facility on the Central Coast and fills up fast. The big room holds 50, and the small room (also ocean view) holds a dozen. Having two rooms available (plus the darkroom) means that we could schedule simultaneous presentations. That could help with the problem of trying to be all things to all interest/experience levels. Most facilities that could host us probably have similar. I agree with Greg about not wanting just beginner stuff. And, the basic question of what balance of activities we want is a great starting point for planning. Robert, what do you think?

I very much like the idea of an 'alt photo basics' presentation. That's actually been on my mind as something to put together as part of the Newport Photography Workshops. It's altogether too easy for those of us immersed in traditional photography to forget that all the jargon and alchemy can seem a bit intimidating to beginners. I hope the seminar in WA went well this weekend. I wish I could have attended. Can anyone report on it?

And, Grif, we're not packrats. We're Collectors, performing a valuable service for those too squeamish to deal with clutter!

Ahhh,,, I stand corrected,,,, and I, on your recommendation, will correct the SO as well. Collectors it is ;-)

How much lead time do you folks usually try for? Usually need 6 weeks for the wife to have a good chance of a hard committment for time off in the summer/early fall.

Grif,

As far as I know, Robert is still planning next year's event, so he would be the final word on a lot of the timing questions. As far as my opinion goes, participants could walk in the door Saturday morning. Only if we thought we were getting close to annoying the Fire Marshall would we turn people away. More the issue for me (and why I just sent $210 to the Newport VAC) is the potential of not getting a venue reserved on a specific weekend. Also, of course, if we are intending to book prominent speakers (something I think Robert favors) they usually like a very long lead time.

At this point, I think a lot of the planning can wait until next year. We're getting close to the Holiday Season, which for me and a lot of others presents its own scheduling challenges. At least we know where we can show up and shoot the bull and share our work next year if nothing more compelling is scheduled . But, needless to say, I hope, is that a steady dialogue of ideas between now and then is nothing but good.

d

Good morning, Grif and Denise;

Regarding titles, I resisted the label of "collector" for a long time. No, No, I am not a "collector;" I am merely a very well equiped photographer. At least, that is what I claimed for many years, but when I noticed that my photographic equipment inventory list print-out was over 60 pages long, and that I had more than one sample of exactly the same item in several cases, I had to accept that I had gone overboard, and the label of "collector" really does apply. However, one defense I can offer is that many of those duplicates are the result of buying a "lot of photographic equipment," and discovering that the person who had that group of photographic equipment had tastes and preferences in photographic equipment that were very similar to mine. And, yes, I am doing my part to keep our landfills from becoming repositories of used film photographic equipment.

Discussion of ideas on future gatherings is good. Denise has already suggested that perhaps we could have local gatherings in various places with the local APUG members just for sharing ideas, conversation, displaying prints, exhibiting the latest equipment acquisitions, and similar activities. Our gathering at Kenmore Camera fell into that category. The main PNW APUG gathering in the fall (second weekend in September, or is it October?) could be reserved for the major meeting with more formal presentations and demonstrations.

Enjoy; Ralph, Latte Land, Washington

Ralph

I'll second the suggestion to let Denise continue with 2011, and then pickup 2012 for Seattle.

As a note, you've got lots of local talent up in Seattle without having to resort to import speakers from outside. I was at a recent event the local alt-photography people put together and there were some good local "experts" in many topics, plus some good images displayed. So you won't have to go far to fill some of the slots (but apug isn't just alt photo, so there are other areas that need showcasing as well). Since no other apugers were attending, you could reuse at least a couple of these presentations from Bellevue.

Denise is right about keeping some time for just discussions and print sharing. People like that more than just sitting an listening to a series of presentations. Having some breaks and a lunch period facilitate fulfilling this need, as does a group dinner in the evening (like the one at the brewery that Denise set up in Newport two years ago).

About half the people seem to like having some time to go make some images, and it seems more important for those that actually traveled a distance to reach the venue (locals don't always want to take the time to go to the same old places that are local, I guess).

So good for you and the other in Seattle for picking up the ball and running with this -- not only hosting, but doing the organizing as well.

Best
Don

Ralph,

Nice to meet someone else standing tall and proud to the label 'Collector'. This morning, I collected me'self an old Russian Sputnik 120 stereo camera. I'm going to load her with handmade 120 roll film. You just can't have that kind of fun with a digital camera!

Re 2011 meeting: Upon consideration and application of some memory cells, I seem to recall that Vaughn advocated for October for two reasons. 1) There was less competition with Labor Day weekend, and 2) If the meeting were held at a college, October would give faculty and students a chance to be around and time to engage. I think both those reasons are excellent, so unless I hear resoundingly to the contrary (and soon) I'll leave stand my reservation for October 8-9, 2011.

Wherever we meet (and I make no secret that I hope it's Newport) I think Don has made an excellent point. People have different needs and goals from any event like ours. It's nice to offer them a few choices. There perhaps can be inside activities planned at the same time as shooting trips. This would also allow for options if the weather turned really nasty.

d

This is great! I'm so happy that our friends up north have stepped forward to show the rest of us the great state of Washington! I would also add that you should find a college to host it. Again, we need to reach out to faculty and students alike. Try the Washington State University. It's sister university in Vancouver was such a great site and Jeannette Altman worked hard for us. She hung up work of the speakers for the students to see and gather interest.
At the second gathering, we had set both dinner and lunch gathering to discuss work, network and the like. Maybe not as interesting as the brewery but those who went enjoyed themselves. We also set a time on Sunday to share work as well. Shooting trips? I remember both occasions. At the first, everyone went there own way and the second had limited. I for one don't like to photograph in large groups. Too distracting. I find I'm busy talking and not seeing.
I also remember Don's great camera couldn't get out because of the wind! But, we had people heading out to where we were to go with it only to find out later that we didn't. I shared a room with one fellow who had waited a long time for us to show. Opps!
Have it October. Our Fall colors maybe just hitting then. As a color photographer, Fall is king!
Anyways, looks like things are moving and that's great!

Ralph and Denise -- Robert points out a good experience from the Newport 2008 event makes it evident that a cellphone contact should be in the literature just in case some factor outside the control of the staff makes an event move (for example, our experience with the sustained wind that afternoon -- while we told those in attendance of the change, there were those that left early or did something outside the planned events that did not hear).

A cellphone call could get them an emergency reroute....it was only 2.1 miles away so would have been quick.

While unlikely, events like sustained high wind, rain, snow, ice, and Tsunamis cannot be controlled, and may impact the location of an event (I'm surely not staying in the Newport Art Center if a Tsunami warning starts ;-). Having a contact number makes it possible for people to reroute.

Excellent point, Don. Cell phone contact number(s) it is. Almost everything we've talked about so far pretty much pertains to any venue. I've started a list of our ideas. Easier than going back over all the posts, and if I know myself and probably everybody else, this conversation will die down over the Holidays. I can't believe it's time again to hang out my BOO! lanterns.

But, I hope everyone feels free to post random wish-list thoughts as they occur. I think if everyone interested does this, we'll be able to grow an itinerary almost without effort. The first of August or so, we can put together an e-committee to make a pretty invitation and schedule of activities, with lots of contact numbers, maps, and photo'ing options (and don't forget food! )

d

p.s. One more thought: The forums here on APUG have really gone to the slugs (my opinion, of course). If we want to stay involved with mostly-film photography, I think it's going to come down to planning real get-togethers with real conversations and real beer and popcorn.

The forums here on APUG have really gone to the slugs. I guess "salted paper printing" is out?!
:-(

Robert wrote: " I guess "salted paper printing" is out?!"