This group is pretty dead...maybe we can invigorate it with some introductions and start some discussions. Could result in some activities next September.

Lets start with two areas

1) If you use alt processes, what camera format(s) you regularly make images with (Note: You may indicate that you use a smaller format camera and use enlarged negatives. You may indicate that you use digitally enlarged negatives but that's as much as you can say as any discussion needs to be moved to hybrid-photo group...so please don't do discussions here).

2) Are you actively producing work in any of the following alt processes: what is your level of expertise (beginner, intermediate, expert*)

* any iron replacement chemistry (includes PtPd, Chrysotype, Kallitype,other ferric oxalate process, etc)
* any dichromate chemistry (includes carbon, gum, etc)
* any flower pigment (anthotype) chemistry
* gravure
* any hand coated colloidial silver chemistry (wet plate, tin-/alumi-/ferro- types, dry plate, etc)
* other alt processes (not including purchased film/paper, toning, liquid emulsion, etc. )


*an expert would be a person who knows a lot about the process - the type of person that can troubleshoot a problem another person might just provide a brief description of.

1) 7x17, 8x10, 12x20, 5x7 in that order for sheetfilm. Some pictorico negatives (that's all we'll say about that ) to recover older negatives I cannot remake (I have 5 linear feet of 8x10 sheetfilm negatives including protective holders for the negative).
2) Pt/Pd expert (the level Dick Arentz assessed my work at two years ago), Kallitype intermediate, carbon beginner. Dry plate wanna-be. collodianist wanna-be.

How about you?

What about those of us who are not alternative users?

Learn an alternative process? ;-)

So I've got a second thread started for that too

I would think that 50 years ago, Color was considered an alternative. :->

1950's...color? No, not then. Maybe go back 110 years or so. Around the 1880-1900's, color was being done regularly ....take a look at this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prokudin-Gorskii-12.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Prokudin_still_life.jpg
I'm sure this Russian fellow would have been impressed with CostCo's printing.
And Autochrome film was widely available to the masses starting in 1907.
First permanent color print in 1861 - search for James Clerk Maxwell.

Well, that was when some of the alternative stuff was happening as well wasn't it?

well, the alt stuff was around for a while before wwI, but at least the Platinum paper disappeared due to the Russians entering the war (they supplied 99% yearly output at that time). Then silver became mainstream, including dye replacement (color).

Since we are living today, the alt processes have seen a resurgence since 1970 but never replaced silver as mainstream.

1) 8x10 primarily, sometimes making two 4x10 images on an 8x10 sheet of film. But I do have a (new-to-me) 5x7 I might play with.

2) -- iron...platinum/palladium prints...semi-expert (printing at an expert level, but perhaps only semi in being able to troubleshoot some of the more arcane problems)

dichromate -- carbon printing...expert

I tend to be technically not very technical. I use a process to make prints. That is my main goal. Testing umpteen different papers, developers, et al is not my thing. Any testing I do is in the actual print-making process...so I have lots of almost good enough prints, but I keep good notes so that when something works I can repeat the successes...and hopefully not repeat the failures. I "discovered" the raised relief of carbon printing by seeing the relief in the wet prints (that then would dry flat). I then slowly tweaked the process (by making prints) to get more and more relief that would still be there when the print dried.

I do admire people such as the carbon printer Sandy King, who had done an amazing amount of testing, but I am too focused on making art to spend the time and energy on such detail explorations.

OK-Ok, I tried my hand a VanDyke Brown once and may come back to it one day. I prefer the browns over Platinum.

"1) 8x10 primarily, sometimes making two 4x10 images on an 8x10 sheet of film. But I do have a (new-to-me) 5x7 I might play with.

I tend to be technically not very technical. I use a process to make prints. That is my main goal. ....I do admire people such as the carbon printer Sandy King, who had done an amazing amount of testing, but I am too focused on making art to spend the time and energy on such detail explorations - Vaughn"

I used to do the split-slide 4x10 in 8x10 holders. Works very well.

I tend towards enough testing to allow decisions and get to a point where first prints are "close". From there its easy to eyeball to adjust contrast and printing time as needed. After spending two weeks in the darkroom with Dick Arentz, I learned how to effectively and quickly test, and to use some of the job aids he's produced (a series of nomographs, graphs, and sliders based on some simple densitrometry). Makes getting a good print very easy. And makes judging required changes easy...and its extensible to all the alt processes.

My way is not the best way -- just my way. And it is certainly not the most efficient way. But I do like the end results.

Vaughn

Oops I aligned myself with alternative processes in the wrong thread, the non alternative thread. So I repeat myself here to say that I do pt/pd from original 8x and 4x negs and also enlarge negs in a wet process from 120 film, mostly my Rolleiflex stuff.

Dennis

question from Don12x20
Which system for Pt/Pd? (A+B, Na2 for Pd, or dichromate or H2O2

I mix it up a bit but mostly use Na2 with Palladium or Hydrogen Peroxide with a bit of platinum mixed in the soup. I never mess with the developer. Sometimes out of frustration I will go back to A+B for a print or two. I find the closer I can keep it to unrestrained the better.

Handcrafted silver gelatin and gum-over same. I used to make albumens and I might again someday.

Cameras: Everything and anything up to 6"x15" (What Imelda was to shoes, I rival with cameras. Love the things.)

Denise

I do Lith Printing on occasion. It's considered an alt-process. I'm looking to get into cyanotype and gum bicarbonate.

I just made a couple carbon prints -- contacted a negative from a Diana camera (1.75"x1.75", I believe). Cute little thing! An accidental double exposure using out-of-date Tech pan. Actually, a platinum version is up in the images on the top of this page. It is reversed from the pt print. Also made a couple 4x5 prints -- using up some carbon tissue from my Ansel Adams Carbon Workshop. The 4x5's are from 1995 after my 5x7 was stolen, but before I got an 8x10 with the insurance money to replace the 5x7 kit. The 4x5's are on Kodak Copy film, developed in HC-110. What a nice film that was. Very manipulable...one could really boost up the contrast for carbon printing...and very clean-working in HC-110. I had forgotten how nice that type of neg is to work with in carbon.

I also printed an 8x10 neg a couple times. Wanted to see how an X-ray neg works with carbon. The film does boost up in contrast nicely, but I don't think the film is as sharp as conventional film. Might be because there is emulsion on both sides. I flipped over the negative for the second print, just to see if the double emulsion would help to keep what sharpness it has...nope...it got a bit mushy. Perhaps a vacuum frame and a point light source like a NuArc might help out there.

So I had a good night of printing (it is almost 10am and I haven't been to bed yet!) Time to make up another batch of carbon tissue (Not this morning! I need to be a bit more mentally here for that!), but soon. Too many negatives, too little time!

Vaughn

You know I am borrowing a book on Autochromes and love the look of the prints. I thought it neat that the process uses potatoe pulp and plates. I wonder if I could try my hand in this? I live just miles from Resers food company.

Robert, all we need now is a photo process that uses meat. We have anthotypes for a salad, autochromes as a side dish and Jello Prints (carbon prints) for desert!

Vaughn

Vaughn, are you saying that we also have gastronomic photography?

Enjoy; Ralph Javins, Latte Land, Washington

Can we develop our film in our lattes while we wait for the main course, Ralph?