Is CatLabs 80 II, Repackaged Fomapan 100?

[mshchem]

I wonder if these films are just off specification master rolls that can be bought cheap? Who knows. I don't shoot much large format, I need to work on that.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I wonder if these films are just off specification master rolls that can be bought cheap? Who knows. I don't shoot much large format, I need to work on that.

That is very possible.

 

[John Wiegerink]

@Craig I believe that would be for CatLabs 320 film. Repackaged Aviphot 200.

I don't think it is either. The Aviphot film I used I seem to remember it having a slightly thinner base than Foma 100, but I could be wrong on that.

 

[John Wiegerink]

@John Wiegerink I hope HR-50 sticks around! It's a do-all film. I wish I could get it in sheet sizes, or at least 120!

Andy (and Paul),
I still have a box of Berrger 4X5 stashed away and will probably polish that off later this Summer. As for Adox HR-50, I really like the film, but this supply thing, or lack thereof, has me a little worried. I do know that Adox is sporadic when it comes to some of their products. I don't have a real problem with the "sporadic supply thing" and have learned to stock up when it is stock. Freestyle says Adox HR-50 bulk 100' will be back in stock June 26, 2026. I sure hope they are right. I guess time will tell! I know I can still get 36exp rolls, but much prefer the bulk roll due to the bulk HR-50 having much, much, much less curl than the 36exp. cassettes after development. As far as Adox rumors go................... I think I remember Adox saying we'd also be getting HR-50 in 120 when they first released HR-50, but I'm still waiting patiently for that.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I don't think it is either. The Aviphot film I used I seem to remember it having a slightly thinner base than Foma 100, but I could be wrong on that.

I'll have to crack open that roll of CatLabs 320... The reason I bought a few rolls was for it's IR sensitivity, as stated on CatLabs' website... which made me think that it's just repackaged Aviphot 400 aka Rollei 400 IR...

 

[mshchem]

Andy (and Paul),
I still have a box of Berrger 4X5 stashed away and will probably polish that off later this Summer. As for Adox HR-50, I really like the film, but this supply thing, or lack thereof, has me a little worried. I do know that Adox is sporadic when it comes to some of their products. I don't have a real problem with the "sporadic supply thing" and have learned to stock up when it is stock. Freestyle says Adox HR-50 bulk 100' will be back in stock June 26, 2026. I sure hope they are right. I guess time will tell! I know I can still get 36exp rolls, but much prefer the bulk roll due to the bulk HR-50 having much, much, much less curl than the 36exp. cassettes after development. As far as Adox rumors go................... I think I remember Adox saying we'd also be getting HR-50 in 120 when they first released HR-50, but I'm still waiting patiently for that.

Is Adox still coating their own film? What is happening with the old Ilford plant in Switzerland?
I hope they can prosper, they're very good manufacturers.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

In regards to HR-50 in 120, that all depends on their finishing machine working. I heard that they recently had it up and running, and were able to finish rolls of CHS II 100. This is their flagship film, so it makes sense for them to do a run on it instead of HR-50. I imagine if their finishing machine can run consistently, without breaking down, they'll finish some HR-50... Apparently, they have 120 HR-50 slitted, just not finished...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Is Adox still coating their own film? What is happening with the old Ilford plant in Switzerland?
I hope they can prosper, they're very good manufacturers.

It is my understanding that Adox has two factories... One in Germany, and another in Switzerland. Yes, they coat their own now. I think in the beginning they were just repackaging Agfa films...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

 

[Paul Howell]

What's the green stuff for? Is it anti-halation, sensitizing dye??? Might be interesting to save a solution and do some further investigation. Whatever it is it's pretty!

It is the anti halation layer, similar to tmax films. It seems that Foma 120 and sheet film use it. So if Cat labs have it, it is likely that the film is likely made by Foma, but whose emulsion? Based on the packaging it seems that Catlab is claiming ownership of the emulsion. Catlab could be claming ownship of the package design, either way leaves room for flase advertiament claims if it is Foma 100 rated at 80.

 

[mshchem]

View attachment 423961

Is this from Adox?? Where is this coming from?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Is this from Adox?? Where is this coming from?

From Adox's factory and brand history pages... I asked AI to put it all together for me.

 

[John Wiegerink]

It is my understanding that Adox has two factories... One in Germany, and another in Switzerland. Yes, they coat their own now. I think in the beginning they were just repackaging Agfa films...

I didn't know that and it makes me feel much better. As for the HR-50 film making it onto a 120 spool.................I'm pretty darn sure it was Adox themselves that made that statement. I haven't used Adox CHS 100 II very much at all, but now after what you say about it being made "in house" I'm certainly going to give it a good try. I like HR-50 for dual purpose, a good find grain B&W film with vert good IR capabilities. My hat's off to Adox!

 

[mshchem]

From Adox's factory and brand history pages... I asked AI to put it all together for me.

I don't think Adox is coating much currently. They're really good at the confectioning. Spooling film, cutting paper (and film) and beautiful packaging. They seem to be mixing powders and bottling liquids. I try to use Adox products whenever possible. Great company, great ethos in terms of quality.
A bottleneck is access to US market tariffs. I'm guessing Freestyle is US distributor??

I hope the Marly plant is still in good shape???

The nightmare scenario to me is China Inc, comes in with "good enough" cheap paper and film that takes away the education market etc.

I'm rambling, sorry

 

[retina_restoration]

Andy (and Paul),
I still have a box of Berrger 4X5 stashed away and will probably polish that off later this Summer. As for Adox HR-50, I really like the film, but this supply thing, or lack thereof, has me a little worried. I do know that Adox is sporadic when it comes to some of their products. I don't have a real problem with the "sporadic supply thing" and have learned to stock up when it is stock. Freestyle says Adox HR-50 bulk 100' will be back in stock June 26, 2026. I sure hope they are right. I guess time will tell! I know I can still get 36exp rolls, but much prefer the bulk roll due to the bulk HR-50 having much, much, much less curl than the 36exp. cassettes after development. As far as Adox rumors go................... I think I remember Adox saying we'd also be getting HR-50 in 120 when they first released HR-50, but I'm still waiting patiently for that.

But the question, John, is: are you willing to "stock up" on a particular film if you know it's going to disappear for five years (or more) at a time? Sporadic availability is one thing, but being unavailable for half a decade at a time makes it something to avoid, at least for me.

 

[retina_restoration]

Based on the packaging it seems that Catlab is claiming ownership of the emulsion. Catlab could be claming ownship of the package design, either way leaves room for flase advertiament claims if it is Foma 100 rated at 80.

CatLabs is not making the film themselves. Try asking Omer for a data sheet for the X80 film and see what kind of a response you get.

 

[mshchem]

CatLabs is not making the film themselves. Try asking Omer for a data sheet for the X80 film and see what kind of a response you get.

 

[Craig]

But the question, John, is: are you willing to "stock up" on a particular film if you know it's going to disappear for five years (or more) at a time? Sporadic availability is one thing, but being unavailable for half a decade at a time makes it something to avoid, at least for me.

That's part of the reason I have stuck with Ilford. Yes, it's a bit more expensive, but if I'm shooting 8x10 getting to location and my time has value too. If I shoot Ilford I know I have quality film and I know what it will do.

The last thing I want to do is pay for a tank to fuel to get to my shooting location and find out after I develop the film that it's unusable because of coating defects.

 

[Paul Howell]

CatLabs is not making the film themselves. Try asking Omer for a data sheet for the X80 film and see what kind of a response you get.

I understand the that, the box of 120 I have reads "Designed in Boston, Made in the E.U, so it is about who coats it and about who developed the emulsion and owns any patents. Berrger does not make film or paper but has it designed then out sources manufacturer.

 

[mshchem]

I understand the that, the box of 120 I have reads "Designed in Boston, Made in the E.U, so it is about who coats it and about who developed the emulsion and owns any patents. Berrger does not make film or paper but has it designed then out sources manufacturer.

The box is designed in Boston, not sure what else

 

[retina_restoration]

I understand the that, the box of 120 I have reads "Designed in Boston, Made in the E.U, so it is about who coats it and about who developed the emulsion and owns any patents. Berrger does not make film or paper but has it designed then out sources manufacturer.

Yep, I get that. But at least Bergger supplies a data sheet with specs, so you know wtf you're working with. CatLabs doesn't because there's no guarantee you're going to get the same film twice. (And Omer doesn't want you finding out that it's just Fomapan or Shanghai)

 

[mshchem]

Yep, I get that. But at least Bergger supplies a data sheet with specs, so you know wtf you're working with. CatLabs doesn't because there's no guarantee you're going to get the same film twice. (And Omer doesn't want you finding out that it's just Fomapan or Shanghai)

Cost! If you want datasheets (probably haven't been updated in 20 years) go to the big boys. Cheap good film with an occasional clipped corner, Catlabs. Good'enuf .

 

[John Wiegerink]

But the question, John, is: are you willing to "stock up" on a particular film if you know it's going to disappear for five years (or more) at a time? Sporadic availability is one thing, but being unavailable for half a decade at a time makes it something to avoid, at least for me.

Paul,
If it were the case of "missing in action" for the period of five years or even four years I wouldn't even use said film in the first place, let alone stock up on it. I'm 76 yrs. old and don't thinking waiting five years for a film to return is a good idea if your being chased by the Grim Reaper. The way things are right now, with those lovely tariffs, I have completely switched back to Kodak Tmax 100 and TMY2 400 since the price is right. I haven't stocked up on them yet, but I probably will in 120. I love the way Tmax 100 and even TMY2 film keeps and should stuff my freezer. I do worry about "wrapper offset" with 120, but I guess you just have to chance it. Sheet film is a different story, and I'll usually use Ilford with a little Foma 100 (maybe Catlabs 80 now) thrown in.

 

[retina_restoration]

Paul,
If it were the case of "missing in action" for the period of five years or even four years I wouldn't even use said film in the first place, let alone stock up on it. I'm 76 yrs. old and don't thinking waiting five years for a film to return is a good idea if your being chased by the Grim Reaper. The way things are right now, with those lovely tariffs, I have completely switched back to Kodak Tmax 100 and TMY2 400 since the price is right. I haven't stocked up on them yet, but I probably will in 120. I love the way Tmax 100 and even TMY2 film keeps and should stuff my freezer. I do worry about "wrapper offset" with 120, but I guess you just have to chance it. Sheet film is a different story, and I'll usually use Ilford with a little Foma 100 (maybe Catlabs 80 now) thrown in.

When Pancro 400 was new in 2015, it was under $100 USD for a box of 25 sheets of 8x10, so I tried it, worked out its traits and found it quite likable. So I stocked up and always had at least 3 boxes of it cached. Then, around 2021, the supply dried up completely. A few stray boxes leaked from some warehouse somewhere in the past couple of years, but it's obvious that new product hasn't been manufactured in a long time (not including 35mm/120 rolls, which do appear occasionally).
It's been very disappointing and I have no intention of buying Bergger products again.

 

[John Wiegerink]

When Pancro 400 was new in 2015, it was under $100 USD for a box of 25 sheets of 8x10, so I tried it, worked out its traits and found it quite likable. So I stocked up and always had at least 3 boxes of it cached. Then, around 2021, the supply dried up completely. A few stray boxes leaked from some warehouse somewhere in the past couple of years, but it's obvious that new product hasn't been manufactured in a long time (not including 35mm/120 rolls, which do appear occasionally).
It's been very disappointing and I have no intention of buying Bergger products again.

I also thought Bregger 4X5 sheet film was pretty good and bought two boxes and some rolls of 120. Unfortunately, the 120 film developed some strange type of fungus patterns that really showed themselves in highlight areas. I didn't buy anymore after that. Hopefully this isn't the pattern Adox will follow (here today and gone tomorrow).
I only use HR-50 since it's a pretty darn good IR type film to boot. IR shooting is such a small percentage of what I shoot that it's not really that important for me, but it's still nice to have a few IR type films around.