A Good Red Water Colour for Tri- Colour Gum

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've been playing around with tri- colour gum. I've got a good yellow, and blue, but struggling with red. I've tried a few brands of alizarin Crimson, as well as red pigment from Guerra (too much grit in it). The results are always washed out look. What have you been using?

 

[Herzeleid]

Schminke Horadam's Permanent Karmin (PV19). I read a lot about it in alt-photo list, but after seeing Tony Gonzales' tri color work my mind was made.

Edit: My notes say 1gr P. Karmin from tube per 10gr Gum Arabic (1+3 stock)

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thank you, Herzeleid! I have Guerra's version and there is just too much pigment grit in it. Is there grit in Schminke Horadam's Permanent Karmin?

 

[jim10219]

Old Holland Quinacridone Magenta is what I sometimes use. It's easy on the staining, which is one of the biggest issues I've faced with various reds. I also often mix my own from raw pigments.

I'd recommend checking out: https://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/waterfs.html
They have lots of information about lightfastness, opaqueness, staining tendencies, etc. of many different kinds of watercolors. It's a good resource to start your search with.

 

[Herzeleid]

Thank you, Herzeleid! I have Guerra's version and there is just too much pigment grit in it. Is there grit in Schminke Horadam's Permanent Karmin?

It is very finely dispersed imo. I never had problems with it.
I haven't tried guerra's pigments, not available locally. I checked their website although they indicate no filler is added, may be something in it is causing the grittiness.
If you are using dry pigment that is another story of course.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Old Holland Quinacridone Magenta is what I sometimes use. It's easy on the staining, which is one of the biggest issues I've faced with various reds. I also often mix my own from raw pigments.

I'd recommend checking out: https://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/waterfs.html
They have lots of information about lightfastness, opaqueness, staining tendencies, etc. of many different kinds of watercolors. It's a good resource to start your search with.

Thanks, Jim.

It is very finely dispersed imo. I never had problems with it.
I haven't tried guerra's pigments, not available locally. I checked their website although they indicate no filler is added, may be something in it is causing the grittiness.
If you are using dry pigment that is another story of course.

It's been great for tri-colour carbon, as I can easily filter the pigmented glop after mixing. Filtering pigmented gum on the other hand doesn't seem to work very well. I'm losing a lot of saturation. I

 

[Herzeleid]

It's been great for tri-colour carbon, as I can easily filter the pigmented glop after mixing. Filtering pigmented gum on the other hand doesn't seem to work very well. I'm losing a lot of saturation. I

When I used Mixol for carbon, it had fillers (calcium carbonate) as indicated in msds, filtering caused huge loss. Guerra says no fillers but an aqueous dispersion contains surfactants, emulsifiers and etc. May be the ingredients are not ideal to combine with gum arabic.
Watercolor tubes easily mix with gum, but they are expensive than pigment dispersions.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I use Daniel Smith - quadr.... magenta , Indian Yellow, Thaylo Blue(greenshade)

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I use Daniel Smith - quadr.... magenta , Indian Yellow, Thaylo Blue(greenshade)

Thank you, Bob. Do you mean, quinacridone magenta?

 

[Bob Carnie]

thank you, Bob

Deserres sells them if they are out your way, pretty common in art stores here.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Deserres sells them if they are out your way, pretty common in art stores here.

Yup I see it listed there... as well as Opus, which is not far from my place. Thanks, Bob.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

When I used Mixol for carbon, it had fillers (calcium carbonate) as indicated in msds, filtering caused huge loss. Guerra says no fillers but an aqueous dispersion contains surfactants, emulsifiers and etc. May be the ingredients are not ideal to combine with gum arabic.
Watercolor tubes easily mix with gum, but they are expensive than pigment dispersions.

Thank you for that information!

 

[ced]

Try grinding it with some gum arabic in a pestle and mortar takes at least 30-60mins...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Try grinding it with some gum arabic in a pestle and mortar takes at least 30-60mins...

 

[adelorenzo]

Andrew I also use the Daniel Smith pigments that Bob recommends. I order them from Opus, they also sell big jugs of gum arabic.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Andrew I also use the Daniel Smith pigments that Bob recommends. I order them from Opus, they also sell big jugs of gum arabic.

Are you in Vancouver? There's a branch near me in Coquitlam. I'm hoping they've got it in stock... Will be checking tomorrow. Thanks!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ha never mind... you're up in Whitehorse!

 

[adelorenzo]

Ha never mind... you're up in Whitehorse!

Yup . I mail order from Opus for my framing supplies, gum printing and general art-store type stuff. We have almost nothing locally. They've been great to deal with.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ya I've been dealing with Opus forever for myself and for supplies for my students. I'm happy that they've opened a branch near me. Beats driving downtown Vancouver. Worst drivers EVER! LOL