When Kodak launch Ektachrome

[macfred]

From a discussion at filmwasters.com :
... It will come back for medium format too, according to a source working in Rochester ...

Reply #62 http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=8989.msg126032#msg126032

I would like to believe that ...

 

[BrianShaw]

Ah.... "a source"...

I would like to believe it too, but...

Why the heck doesn't/can't Koadak or Kodak Alaris tell their potential customers about their plans and status. That's just bizarre.

 

[Mackinaw]

.....Why the heck doesn't/can't Koadak or Kodak Alaris tell their potential customers about their plans and status. That's just bizarre.

I'm sure they have.

But remember that the film is still being formulated. Way to early for anybody to make any promises.

Jim B.

 

[BrianShaw]

I'm sure they have.

But remember that the film is still being formulated. Way to early for anybody to make any promises.

Jim B.

Then, apparently, professional and amateur still film photographers aren't in the list of potential customers.

Where is this information you think they've divulged? I've seen two: the initial Jan CES release and the recent quarterly earnings report. Neither says much.

Not looking for promises as much as authoritative source of information. The internet buzz is interesting but almost none is substantiated by anything more than oft-repeated rumor, speculation and a few "clandestine meetings with insiders".

And while I totally agree that folks need to be real careful about what they say regarding R&D projects... this kind of revival shouldn't be rocket science for a company witk Kodaks history. Maybe a production problem due to old equipment or production run downsizing issues... or a diminishing source/supplier issues... but I find it hard to believe that they are struggling too much with an emulsion formula.

 

[RattyMouse]

Then, apparently, professional and amateur still film photographers aren't in the list of potential customers.

Where is this information you think they've divulged? I've seen two: the initial Jan CES release and the recent quarterly earnings report. Neither says much.

Not looking for promises as much as authoritative source of information. The internet buzz is interesting but almost none is substantiated by anything more than oft-repeated rumor, speculation and a few "clandestine meetings with insiders".

And while I totally agree that folks need to be real careful about what they say regarding R&D projects... this kind of revival shouldn't be rocket science for a company witk Kodaks history. Maybe a production problem due to old equipment or production run downsizing issues... or a diminishing source/supplier issues... but I find it hard to believe that they are struggling too much with an emulsion formula.

When Kodak went bankrupt, how many film chemists/engineers were lost? When Kodak transitioned over from a film company to a commercial printing company, how many film chemists/engineers were lost?

Very often a lot of company talent is lost during huge events like this. Considering Kodak has done nothing new with film for many many many years, I would suggest that a lot of talent has been lost and this may be why resurrecting Ektachrome is such a challenge for today's VERY different Kodak.

 

[BrianShaw]

So, yes, Mr Mouse... I completely overlooked that aspect. How dumb of me. You are right... they are working with one arm tied behind their back for lack of the talent they once had. Thanks for pointing that out.

... and I should have been more sensitive to that issue since the average age at my company is mid-50's and several engineering functions I manage are getting impacted by retirement and death. We hire many bright minds to replace them but the loss of experience and history is devastating.

I suppose what I was assuming is that Kodak processes are documented in a cookbook fashion so that replication would be easier. But I should have known better than assume either the degree of documentation or the ease of replication.

 

[Mackinaw]

Then, apparently, professional and amateur still film photographers aren't in the list of potential customers.........

At this stage of the game, they’re not.

Does Honda tell it’s dealers what vehicles they intend to sell in the future? Take it from me, they don’t. Remember that dealers are independent franchises and are Honda’s primary customers. They buy the vehicles Honda produces.

I’m sure Kodak has shared a lot of information with Kodak Alaris, and others, as to their future plans. Why wouldn’t they? Kodak Alaris sells what Kodak makes and they’re going to have to figure out distribution of the new Ektachrome and maybe even marketing. But with this new film still in the alpha-stage, it’s way too early to announce anything to the outside world.

Kodak has said that the film will be field tested later this year and will be available sometime in 2018. For all we know field-testing will be a dismal failure and it will be back to the drawing board for the Kodak engineers.

I’m totally OK with waiting. If Ferrania and Impossible Project, with their delays and quality problems, have taught us anything, it's that making film is HARD (which is what PE has been telling us for years).

Jim B.

 

[BrianShaw]

I'm totally OK with waiting too! After all, that's about all we can do.

 

[faberryman]

From a discussion at filmwasters.com :
... It will come back for medium format too, according to a source working in Rochester ...

Reply #62 http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=8989.msg126032#msg126032

I would like to believe that ...

A lot of people work in Rochester. A few of them work at Kodak. For all we know the source flips burgers at a McDonald's...in Rochester.

 

[RattyMouse]

So, yes, Mr Mouse... I completely overlooked that aspect. How dumb of me. You are right... they are working with one arm tied behind their back for lack of the talent they once had. Thanks for pointing that out.

... and I should have been more sensitive to that issue since the average age at my company is mid-50's and several engineering functions I manage are getting impacted by retirement and death. We hire many bright minds to replace them but the loss of experience and history is devastating.

I suppose what I was assuming is that Kodak processes are documented in a cookbook fashion so that replication would be easier. But I should have known better than assume either the degree of documentation or the ease of replication.

I've gone through two corporate takeovers (not bankruptcies) and each time we lost a good 30% or more of the experienced laboratory staff. I can only imagine how devastating a bankruptcy would be.

Also, what kind of fresh blood would go into the film industry today?

And yes, re-creating films is not just as simple as making a recipe from a cookbook. PE has stated that in many different ways. That assumes that the formulations from years ago are even valid with today's available raw materials.

 

[RattyMouse]

At this stage of the game, they’re not.

Does Honda tell it’s dealers what vehicles they intend to sell in the future? Take it from me, they don’t.

Yes they do. Honda dealers knew a good 8-12 months ago that the Civic Type R was coming sometime in the future.

 

[mshchem]

All I can say is I'm ready for Ektachrome still film. 35mm is all I can hope for, for now. I have a brand new Fuji Hunt 5 L kit waiting to go and plenty of Fujichrome to get me through the fall and spring. I really love 6x6 slides, but I have plenty of empty Carousel trays waiting for 35mm.
It's going to happen. When it does buy it!!

 

[sirimiri]

¡Viva Kodak/Alaris! ¡Viva 'film'!

 

[MattKing]

I'd be willing to bet that most of the film related staffing at Eastman Kodak was reduced in the years leading up to the bankruptcy, rather at the time of bankruptcy itself.
PE has posted on numerous occasions in the last 10+ years that there was a real problem in that no new people were being trained with respect to the research, development and manufacture of film.

 

[RattyMouse]

I'd be willing to bet that most of the film related staffing at Eastman Kodak was reduced in the years leading up to the bankruptcy, rather at the time of bankruptcy itself.
PE has posted on numerous occasions in the last 10+ years that there was a real problem in that no new people were being trained with respect to the research, development and manufacture of film.

Before or after, it doesnt really matter as the point is the same. With Kodak's dwindling interest in film, there's no reason to have on staff a whole host of scientists and engineers who work on something that is no longer part of the company's core business. As a result, Kodak's capabilities, their formerly premier capabilities, are probably substantially reduced.

 

[railwayman3]

I just wonder why, when Kodak gives a general indication of when E6 might be available if everything goes well and after tests have been conducted successfully, every word get discussed and analysed to death, and they get generally criticised for not being more specific. Ferrania promises time after time actual dates (not just for colour but now for B&W ad well) and fails totally in meeting them, and yet any comment on this brings the wrath of God down from the Ferrania accolites here.

Maybe Kodak still have a more pragmatic grasp of what can go wrong and what delays can occur in bringing a film back into production in consistent high quality, a finished reliable version, and a realistic commercial manner ? IDK, just saying.

 

[BrianShaw]

Did they actually use the word "might"? I don't recall seeing that but may be mistaken. Or are you referring to the lack of specificity on the release date. No matter... I've not seen those kind of words coming out of an authoritative source.

But it would be good for them to retain some flexibility, wouldn't it.

 

[removed account4]

Why the heck doesn't/can't Koadak or Kodak Alaris tell their potential customers about their plans and status. That's just bizarre.

LOL dang LEAKERS ! it seems the AG has got his work cut out for him in the film industry too

 

[skorpiius]

Why companies have websites, if they communicate via twitter?

Some websites are coded in such a way that you need to get the web developer to make updates, and the web developer might be an outside company. With Twitter a PR person can have an update posted in 5 mins.

 

[skorpiius]

When Kodak went bankrupt, how many film chemists/engineers were lost? When Kodak transitioned over from a film company to a commercial printing company, how many film chemists/engineers were lost?

Very often a lot of company talent is lost during huge events like this. Considering Kodak has done nothing new with film for many many many years, I would suggest that a lot of talent has been lost and this may be why resurrecting Ektachrome is such a challenge for today's VERY different Kodak.

Sounds like they should have hired @Photo Engineer

 

[Meyer Trioplan]

I just wonder why, when Kodak gives a general indication of when E6 might be available if everything goes well and after tests have been conducted successfully, every word get discussed and analysed to death, and they get generally criticised for not being more specific. Ferrania promises time after time actual dates (not just for colour but now for B&W ad well) and fails totally in meeting them, and yet any comment on this brings the wrath of God down from the Ferrania accolites here.

Maybe Kodak still have a more pragmatic grasp of what can go wrong and what delays can occur in bringing a film back into production in consistent high quality, a finished reliable version, and a realistic commercial manner ? IDK, just saying.

Seems there are certainly lots of criticisms of Ferrania here as well, but I get what your point.

I think it comes down to communication and interaction. Ferrania has someone who posts here regularly, provides updates to what is going on with specifics and challenges, and while the initial optimism may have been too much, I can at least appreciate knowing that there are updates to frame the progress of the process, even if the ultimate end game and timeline are hardly clear.

Kodak's information consisted of an initial media buzz early in the year, and now a little snippet of information some 9 months later, with no substantive information or ability for the observers here to really get a feel for what is going on. Even replies on Twitter about the expected emulsion variety and formats of Ektachrome seem to be met with "We'll have that information for you later."

With Ferrania, you feel like you're talking to someone, but with Kodak, it feels more like the interaction is of the likes of "For information, press 2... For media, press 3...."

 

[Arctic amateur]

Why the heck doesn't/can't Koadak or Kodak Alaris tell their potential customers about their plans and status. That's just bizarre.

Film Ferrania did that, look at how nice that thread turned out.

 

[Photo Engineer]

This is pure speculation, but Kodak may not be updating anything about Ektachrome because they are still not sure that they can do it, or perhaps they know that they can but not when yet.

PE

 

[BrianShaw]

This is pure speculation, but Kodak may not be updating anything about Ektachrome because they are still not sure that they can do it, or perhaps they know that they can but not when yet.

PE

I believe that!

 

[Diapositivo]

Ferrania had collected money from the public, so they started from the beginning with some kind of moral obligation to relate about the schedule.
Kodak has the luxury to remain silent, if they choose to, without raising criticism (except on APUG* that is).

IMHO Kodak perfectly understand the state of slide film laboratories. They understand that, if and when they know that the film will be certainly on the market, making an announcement will help a lot, because laboratories which are on the verge of closing would stay open.
The general silence of Kodak is a demonstration of the difficulties of this endeavour and, also, a demonstration of how dire is the task for Ferrania as well.

I wish both of them success.

* I know the forum changed name, I know...