Zone VI Print developer

schrollphoto · Sep 20, 2010

I just got off the phone with Calumet and found out that the Zone VI print developer I have been using for years is now no longer manufactured. I was told it was discontinued last year. Maybe I was the only user! If anyone else out there is or was a user, what have you switched to? Seems like just when I get used to something, it disappears.....oh well, maybe it was time to change.

ann · Sep 20, 2010

LPD calumet handles this product

pgomena · Sep 20, 2010

I have a couple of packages left yet. I may go to home-brew Ansco 130 or the Photographer's Formulary version of that. LPD is a good developer, as is the Ilford liquid. There's always Dektol, though I'm not a big fan. It works.

Peter Gomena

papagene · Sep 20, 2010

I loved the Zone VI print developer... alas things change. I bought some Dektol for the time being. Maybe I'll try the Photographer's Formulary version of Ansco 130. We'll see.

jeffreyg · Sep 20, 2010

I also have one package left and some where along the line I tried the Photographer's Formulary version of 130 but didn't find it to be anything special. I used to use Dektol with good results and have some for when I use up the Zone VI. I suspect the Ilford is similar to the Dektol?

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

schrollphoto · Sep 21, 2010

Thanks everyone, I have three packages left so I thought I better start testing alternatives. I'm not a chemist so I really don't want to start down that path. I switched from Dektol in the mid 90's and I can't really remember why. I use Iford multi-grade papers exclusively, has anyone tried their multigrade paper developer?

Gerald C Koch · Sep 21, 2010

schrollphoto said:
I'm not a chemist so I really don't want to start down that path.

One hundred years ago everyone had to mix their own. Looks like we're headed back in that direction. Plus ca change ....

Seriously, mixing your own solutions is not that hard. You really don't need to know any chemistry to do it. Remember cooking is really a form of chemistry. Think of it as following a recipe rather than a formula. There is so much more available if you can mix your own. You'll also save a bit of coin in the process.

rtuttle · Sep 21, 2010

I was once told Zone VI Print Developer (which I used for years) was D-72 and that D-72 was not much more then Dektol without the sequestering agent and that's why Zone VI was in two parts. Zone VI Fixer was good too, low order worked well but was F-8 I believe. Since the demise of Zone VI I use Ansco 130 too.

pgomena · Sep 21, 2010

I suspect you're right about both the print developer and the fixer. I've read elsewhere in the past that the fixer and developer both were classic Kodak formulas. Fred Picker was a very good salesman, so just what the exact formulations were that gave Zone VI developer that ever-so-important marketable edge is hard to say. He was prone to using a bit of hype. With so many formulas out there, it's impossible just to guess.

I've found the Ilford liquid developer to be just fine. I rarely used it in the past only because I hate paying for premixed chemicals when powders are readily available. Water is cheap.

Peter Gomena

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 21, 2010

I now simply home brew the classic Ansco 130 formula. Even if you don't believe that you can see a qualitative difference in results, there is still one huge benefit to this formula - longevity. This stuff lasts forever.

In a full 1-liter brown glass lab bottle I have easily stored stock 130 for over a year. When finally opened and used both its appearance and performance were like it was mixed the previous day. In the tray or dish I will use it first for important work, then cover it with a sheet of rigid plastic (non-air tight) overnight and simply pick up the next afternoon with proof sheets. Could never do that with Dektol/D-72.

Ken

Robert Hall · Sep 21, 2010

ann said:
LPD calumet handles this product

Ann, I don't think they make LPD any longer. I have not seen it stocked anywhere.

Robert Hall · Sep 21, 2010

Robert Hall said:
Ann, I don't think they make LPD any longer. I have not seen it stocked anywhere.

I stand corrected.

eddym · Sep 21, 2010

Gerald C Koch said:
Seriously, mixing your own solutions is not that hard. You really don't need to know any chemistry to do it. Remember cooking is really a form of chemistry. Think of it as following a recipe rather than a formula.

You obviously haven't tried my cooking.

eddym · Sep 21, 2010

All seriousness aside, I learned of the demise of the Zone VI print developer and HCA about a month or two ago when I placed an order for it from Calumet. I still have some of each, but I too am shopping for replacements. I like the Ilford Warmtone print developer, so I might try their other version too. Or just get more into warm tone prints... For HCA, there's always Heico. All options are more expensive, though.

Doremus Scudder · Sep 22, 2010

I mentioned this somewhere else just recently...

I'm fairly sure that Zone VI print developer was just repackaged Ilford Bromophen (a PQ developer that comes in two parts as well). If not, it was a pretty similar formulation. I would think that Bromophen would be a logical replacement.

Dektol, D-72, LPD or other standard developers should yield similar results.

Ansco 130 is "special" due to the glycin in the formula and its long tray life. It's really nice too.

If you're looking for the convenience of the Zone VI product, I'd go with Bromophen or one of the proprietary products.

Best,

Doremus Scudder
www.DoremusScudder.com

schrollphoto · Sep 22, 2010

Thanks again to all, very interesting. Ansco 130 pops up a lot so, looks like I might start "cooking" a formula or two. Where's the best place to get "recipes" and "ingredients"?

CBG · Sep 22, 2010

schrollphoto said:
... Where's the best place to get "recipes" and "ingredients"?

Click "Articles" at the top of the APUG page, then click "Recipes" at the left side, then click "paper developers" on the left side.

schrollphoto · Sep 22, 2010

Thanks, here I go.....

rtuttle · Sep 22, 2010

Unless mixing Ansco 130 is something you want to do I would just suggest buying from Photographer's Formulary right off the shelf! But if you must mix it they also more then likely sell all the ingredients too.

http://stores.photoformulary.com/StoreFront.bok

Gerald C Koch · Sep 22, 2010

rtuttle said:
Unless mixing Ansco 130 is something you want to do I would just suggest buying from Photographer's Formulary right off the shelf! But if you must mix it they also more then likely sell all the ingredients too.

http://stores.photoformulary.com/StoreFront.bok

I have always found Photo Formulary prices to be quite high, you can get chemicals far cheaper from many sites. However they may be the only source for Glycin. Buy only enough of this chemical as you think you can use in a few months as it does not keep. Keep any used in a baggy in the frig.

Chem sources
www.thechemistrystore.com
www.chemtechinc.com
www.artcraftchemicals.com

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 22, 2010

Glycin Keeping Properties

Gerald C Koch said:
However they may be the only source for Glycin. Buy only enough of this chemical as you think you can use in a few months as it does not keep. Keep any used in a baggy in the frig.

I'll offer another data point here. My last purchase of glycin powder from The Photographer's Formulary was shipped by them to me on 5/19/2008. On 7/30/2010 I mixed my most recent 4-liter batch of Ansco 130 using most of the remaining powder from that batch.

That's a storage interval of 2-years 2½-months.

The resulting stock solution of print developer was, as near as I could tell without performing controlled tests, perfect. And the glycin powder appeared unchanged as well. It was the same very pale tan color I remembered when first opened. To the best of my knowledge and observation there was no degradation in the resulting Ansco 130 developer's performance.

From the date it was received the dry powder was stored in its original screw top plastic container. I further air-sealed that container by wrapping a single layer of plastic electrician's tape around the cap edge. The bottle remained in its light-tight black plastic bag while subsequently stored in my freezer.

When I needed some for mixing I would remove the bottle from the freezer and allow it to warm to room temperature before opening. I would then open, extract, close, and reseal the bottle, returning it to the freezer within an hour. This cycle was repeated four times using the current batch.

I have measured the temperature range in the freezer. It fluctuates between -5F/+5F (-21C/-15C), except during its brief defrost cycles when it rises to around 25+F (-4C).

This protocol has proved so successful that my next purchase of glycin will likely be a 1-pound (454 g) bottle. For the record, I did also save a small amount of the current glycin powder so I can compare it visually to the newly purchased powder, just to see if there is any slight difference in appearance.

And I seem to remember reading that The Photographer's Formulary is currently the only source for glycin. I read that they make it up by the batch something like every two weeks, or so. But I don't know how true this is. A quick email to them may be in order.

Since this data point involves the long-term keeping properties of a chemical substance, the standard 'YMMV' disclaimer is especially appropriate.

Ken

Gerald C Koch · Sep 24, 2010

Ken Nadvornick said:
And I seem to remember reading that The that I mentianed in a prePhotographer's Formulary is currently the only source for glycin. I read that they make it up by the batch something like every two weeks, or so. But I don't know how true this is. A quick email to them may be in order.

I believe that you are correct. They do offer it in their catalog and I have found no other source.

Glycin is one of those "orphan chemicals", that I mentioned in another thread, which had only one use as a developing agent. It was once used in a few commercial developers. Once these developers disappeared there was no longer any reason to produce it commercially.

Zone VI Print developer

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