Zone V detail on Wedge

afrank · Feb 6, 2013

I was trying to make my own gray-scale Wedge with 11 steps and decided to add a section where detail was present inside a zone.
for zone V i took the value of 127 -+ 12 and ended up creating a brick/mortar pattern. I haven't tested this on film yet, but it seems that detail for darker zones seems clearer.
Is there a better way to do this pattern? maybe darker zones should have less variance from the middle value....

Thanks for any advice!

cowanw · Feb 6, 2013

Great idea

afrank · Feb 6, 2013

Any advice on printing?

Stephen Benskin · Feb 6, 2013

This looks reflective. Are you planning on shooting it? A wedge is usually slange for a step tablet which is contacted.

If you plan on shooting it, it will work well if you plan on doing copy work, but the luminance range of a gray scale is shorter than the average scene. There is a distinction between print Zones and subject Zones. Ten subject Zones has a range of ten stops or 3.0 luminance range. I believe the card is closer to 5 or 6 stops (1.50 to 1.80 reflective density range).

afrank · Feb 6, 2013

I just plan to use it to establish film speed (ball park figures, exp film), and work on dev times with my developers. should I use reflective paper or matted?
Is there a way to get more range?

Chuck_P · Feb 6, 2013

afrank said:
I was trying to make my own gray-scale Wedge with 11 steps and decided to add a section where detail was present inside a zone.
for zone V i took the value of 127 -+ 12 and ended up creating a brick/mortar pattern. I haven't tested this on film yet, but it seems that detail for darker zones seems clearer.
Is there a better way to do this pattern? maybe darker zones should have less variance from the middle value....

Thanks for any advice!

I like the idea, but IMO, the gray scale that is presented should be in keeping with a bonifide zone system gray scale, especially if references to zones are going to be your norm. I realize you are in the beginning phase of it, but for example, your Zone I contains way too much detail to be Zone I and the same for Zone IX. I would simply refer you to The Negative and the chapter on the Zone System and the sub-sections of "The Exposure Scale" and "Dynamic and Textural Ranges"------------it's all there and is easily understood. I've created the gray scale as described (after doing effective speed tests of course) and it pans out that way very well. Again, it's a good idea IMO.

Chuck

afrank · Feb 6, 2013

@Cporter
Thank you for the input. I do have all 3 A.A. books but I tried to have a single/simple subject I can photograph to test the film. He advices doing it with a wall/fabric. My goal was to print the card and use it as my exposure test. Having said that, the cards zone I has detail because we can see it, but will the film see it? That is precisely what I wanted to test. Else I will have to go back to shooting my bathroom wall 10 times at 2$ the shot...

dpurdy · Feb 7, 2013

Good Lord! Establish zone 1 and find the processing for zone 8 and get out of the house. Intuitive sense from experience is the important thing.

afrank · Feb 7, 2013

Chuck_P · Feb 7, 2013

afrank said:
ok

Make your gray scale, man----------you'll probably learn something.

sewarion · Feb 8, 2013

Funny enough, I was planning on doing something very similar, so I sincerely hope that you don't lose your interest in this project or let others discourage you!

I have some related questions, too:

- Is it really possible/feasible to 'translate' the zone system into an 11-step scale from 0 to 255, defining zone V as 128 (or 127)?
- Assuming I have the stuff printed on matte paper, and I would take not to put the test target into bright sunlight, would this mitigate the issue of reflectivity?
- What about subject and print luminance range? Is it by principle not possible to print 10+ zones, even digitally, in a way to capture them as 10+ zones on a negative?

thanks,
sewarion

edit:

- and while being at it, would it make sense to consider any 12%/18% gray issues for metering etc.?

Stephen Benskin · Feb 8, 2013

sewarion said:
Funny enough, I was planning on doing something very similar, so I sincerely hope that you don't lose your interest in this project or let others discourage you!

I have some related questions, too:

- Is it really possible/feasible to 'translate' the zone system into an 11-step scale from 0 to 255, defining zone V as 128 (or 127)?
- Assuming I have the stuff printed on matte paper, and I would take not to put the test target into bright sunlight, would this mitigate the issue of reflectivity?
- What about subject and print luminance range? Is it by principle not possible to print 10+ zones, even digitally, in a way to capture them as 10+ zones on a negative?

thanks,
sewarion

edit:

- and while being at it, would it make sense to consider any 12%/18% gray issues for metering etc.?

There are a lot of issues to consider. Basically, most of the testing is to find an EI and not the film speed. As such, you really don't need to be precise, but to do any kind of proper testing, you need to understand what you are testing for and the variables and conditions involved. A beginner creating thier own testing procedures really isn't the most practical approach. You're attempting to reinvent the wheel without understanding what it is.

Ten subject Zones equals ten stops or a log luminance range of 3.0. Glossy paper has around a maximum of log 2.0 relectance range. Matte paper has less. If you want to use your own scales, have them measured and use those measurements to compare with the finished print. Personally, I would recommend testing the film using a step tablet, and don't get caught up thinking only in Zones.

DREW WILEY · Feb 8, 2013

Microtonality mid-scale is a distinct (though related) topic to overall range of the film. It will differ with
different films, different development regimens, differernt print papers and developers, and even different camera lenses. To make sense of it you'd first need to learn to plot these step readings onto a curve using a desitometer, assuming you understand how to interpret these things in the first place. The Zone system is only moderately useful in this respect. It's pretty generalized. Eventually you just have to home in on a specific film, developer, and paper to learn the working dialect. Othewise, buy a
serious textbook on sensitometry - which will itself have little practical value unless you understand
what you want your film to do !

Zone V detail on Wedge

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