Zone System and meaning of N+-1 Development

Hello , Could you please tell me n+-1 development is 1 minute plus minus development ot that term calculated by the percentage of total development time or should I do film test to find the time for example ev minus plus 1 for my film and strenght of developer , agitation and temp ?

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:

n+-1 development is 1 minute plus minus development

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No, it's not 1 minute. The number '1' in "N+1" etc. refers to the number of zones being shifted up (or down). The change in development will depend on the particular film & developer combination. You have to do testing to establish this, or go with a known recipe that someone else determined for you, but that can be challenging as you'll have to replicate ALL of their parameters exactly.

Thank you moderator ,how to test for finding n+-1 film development time ? I have 1938 Leica III with 1938 Elmar 5 and Canon 1000f with 28-70 canon zoom. That leica is my 11th and the lens is not sharp like others. I am in a process of buying canon with intent of knife edge images.

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:

Thank you moderator ,how to test for finding n+-1 film development time ? I have 1938 Leica III with 1938 Elmar 5 and Canon 1000f with 28-70 canon zoom. That leica is my 11th and the lens is not sharp like others. I am in a process of buying canon with intent of knife edge images.

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And how to understand its real N-+1

The questions you ask suggest you need to start reading about the basics of the Zone System if that's what you're interested in. I would point you to any text that guides you through the Zone System. There are several available; pick up any of these books (or online guides) that you fancy.

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:

I have 1938 Leica III with 1938 Elmar 5 and Canon 1000f with 28-70 canon zoom. That leica is my 11th and the lens is not sharp like others. I am in a process of buying canon with intent of knife edge images.

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The cameras and lenses really don't matter; I'd leave them out of this discussion. When it comes to the Zone System, it's all about exposure and development. The camera just needs to be consistent enough to give the exposures you anticipate; sharpness etc. aren't part of this equation. If your quest is for sharpness, acutance etc. I wouldn't bother with the Zone System per se as it pertains to a different area of imaging (although global contrast does do 'something' with perceived sharpness).

As Koraks says, to start on the Zone System path, you need to test your black and white materials.

First you need to find your personal Exposure Index (not always the same as the box ASA/ISO), to ensure you are getting the tonal range you require with your chosen developer. Then you carry out more tests to see what level of under/over exposure and under/over development you need to get the increase/decrease in contrast you want.

There are numerous threads on this site that can explain the Zone System more fully and accurately than i can.......or get to a library and read Ansel Adams The Negative.

Mike

The personal exposure index is a bit of an oxymoron, even if seen all over ZS publications and teachings. It assumes certain technical and functional parts of image making / producing chain is specific to a person. This, as such, is based on assumptions a person has no desire to make any adjustments, just whatever he's got, this is it. This is especially so with shutter speeds and how they are likely inconsistent across ownership spectrum.

At the same time, benefit from using ZS is only advisable, if consistent routine can be followed each and every time. Any changes require new testing. Any equipment changes require new testing. I don't think we live in times any of it makes even remote fiscal sense.

ZS is not uniformly equal to purported perfection, far from it. Understanding it is always good as it explains quite well how exposure and development affect dark and light parts.

The +/- 1 applies to how film is developed (away from standard times) and that is tied directly into what ZS says about emulsion behaviour from exposure to development.

As stated already, ANY ZS book is good start to get a handle on it.

One last note: ZS is not a guarantee of great results, just one tool in the bag that MIGHT help getting there, and by far not a requirement.

If you are shooting 35mm, my advice would be to avoid N+1 or N-1 development times. The added (or substracted) time will affect the frames on the entire roll, something you might not want.

If you are shooting all 24 or 35 frames in the exact same lighting conditions, either very high or very low contrast, then yes, you might want to go the +/- route. True zone system requires extensive testing to find the exact +/- times — a testing that is not well adapted to a bit laborious with 35mm film — but you can also experiment by adding successively 10%, 15%, 20%, etc., development time to reach whatever you are looking for in your negs in certain lighting conditions.

Again, it should be specified that N +/- is the solution (or at least Ansel Adams' solution) to a problem related to the lighting conditions of a specific scene. Which bring me to my question : why do you feel you need to know the N+1 development time for the film you are using?

Although Ansel Adams did shoot MF and 35mm the Zone System was developed for shooting sheet film in which each sheet of film development times can be adjusted. If you can find copy of Carson Graves Zone System for the 35mm Photographers, he provides detailed instructions for testing 35mm film for a personal E.I without a densitomer by shooting a ring around.

I agree with what Alex and Paul said when using 35mm or roll film. With 35mm and roll film the old saying "expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights" pretty much covers it. Of course you can expose for the shadows in every individual frame in 35mm, but you can't develop each frame differently. That's the difference between shooting single sheet film and 35mm and 120 roll film. It also depends on what kind of meter you are using and how you use that meter. Tell us how you go about metering the scene you are going to shoot and we can help you more.

Hi @Mustafa Umut Sarac

What you will need to do is technically over develop your negative for a stop. The timings for any developer is well published and you can use Massive Dev Chart to find the developer/film combination. The purpose of over developing is giving a bit more contrast to the negative but as others have said, that will in fact effect the entire roll. When AA and others have developed Zone System, they were mainly focused on sheet films where each sheet of film was developed individually to have more control on the print. Because the films, papers and developers were more limited, as what they can produce etc., they were trying to compensate for what they have in hand. Another use of over developing is to compensate for under exposing, such as you expose your film with less light, rating a ISO400 film as ISO800. Overdeveloping will effect the shadow areas less and will effect highlight areas more so ideally, you need to balance that somehow as well. Otherwise your negatives will be too contrasty.

Also, although it is not a must, you would need ideally a spot meter to use ZS effectively, that is to measure a particular area of the scene and put that scene into one of the zones on the chart, between 0 to 10. When we use incident meters, that measures Zone V and we measure the light which falls on our subject, like a face on the portrait. When you use a spot or reflective meter, then you need to know what reflection of the subject has and then put that accordingly, ie if you measure a white person technically that measurement needs to fall in Zone VI and if you take a measurement from darker skin person, that needs to be put on Zone IV or Zone III depending the skin color.

As how you can understand a true N+1 development, if you develop yourself, more or less that is 10-15% longer development. If you are giving to a lab then you'll ask them to push (itme) for a stop. Now I am not entirely sure if labs in Istanbul will do that for you as I have not heard great stories about them, however certain ones are still operating well.

My personal recommendation is, if you use only 35mm film, expose the entire roll same way, and develop the entire roll same way without going into Zine System as you cannot control each frame individually. If you shoot sheet or 120 films then you have a bit more chance, although 120film still has 8 to 16 frames, at least by changing backs you can have more flexibility in case you have such a camera.