Zenobia 120?

takilmaboxer · Jan 16, 2023

I have seen but not purchased a number of Zenobia 645 folders on the bay. Some sellers are not sure if they take 120 or 620 film. Anyone here know?

Dan Daniel · Jan 16, 2023

120.

If it don't say Kodak, it don't need no stinking 620.

Voigtlander has cameras that will take either one. Not sure if other companies did this.

MattKing · Jan 16, 2023

I've got an Argus that I think was designed for 620, and I think that there were a few others as well - if you were selling into the markets where Kodak film was dominant, it made some sense.
But I'd be surprised if that applied to a Zenobia.

reddesert · Jan 16, 2023

The key in the camera that engages the wind slot on the spool to wind the film is usually noticeably smaller on a 620 camera than a 120 camera. If you have both a 620 spool and 120 spool, you can see the difference when looking at the ends. (Voigtlander must have done something to shape the wind key that enabled them to use both.)

Like others, I would be surprised if a Japanese-made camera used 620.

Donald Qualls · Jan 17, 2023

I have a Daiichi Zenobia and I've shot a dozen or more rolls -- of 120 -- through it. No 620 needed.

John Wiegerink · Jan 17, 2023

My old Zeiss Ica Icarette Mod. I, from the mid-20's, takes 620 film, but my Zenobia takes 120 film and does a very fine job with it also.

Donald Qualls · Jan 17, 2023

John Wiegerink said:
Zeiss Ica Icarette Mod. I, from the mid-20's, takes 620 film,

That camera must have been made for 117, since 620 wasn't introduced until around a decade later... Apparently some early examples of the Icarette 1 were made for 117, which (like 620) was the same film width as 120 but on a slightly smaller spool (6 frames of 6x6 on a roll, IIRC; 117 was discontinued after 120 added the 6x6 framing track). That spool might be similar enough to 620 for the later Kodak lock-in format spools to work in a 117 camera, but 120 is often pretty tight in 117 cameras (as it is in 620).

ags2mikon · Jan 17, 2023

I have a 645 Zenobia folder and I have shot it a lot. Probably 100 rolls but 50 years ago. My father bought it while in the Navy in 1952. When he saw my interest in photography he said here it is go for it. I ordered all my black and white film from Sears and Roebuck for the first year or two. If stopped down to f8 and focused well it does very good.

xya · Jan 17, 2023

I have had several Zenobias, they were all made for 120 film. As I'm into rangefinders, I finally bought a Super Zenobia, a 120 film camera as well. It's a superb camera https://www.120folder.com/zenobia_sr.htm

JPD · Jan 17, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
That camera must have been made for 117, since 620 wasn't introduced until around a decade later... Apparently some early examples of the Icarette 1 were made for 117, which (like 620) was the same film width as 120 but on a slightly smaller spool (6 frames of 6x6 on a roll, IIRC; 117 was discontinued after 120 added the 6x6 framing track). That spool might be similar enough to 620 for the later Kodak lock-in format spools to work in a 117 camera, but 120 is often pretty tight in 117 cameras (as it is in 620).

Yes, if 620 and 120 had a child it would be a 117. Flanges from the 620 and spool from the 120. It must have been the 6x6 Icarette that took 117-film, because it had the markings for 6x6, which 120 didn't at the time.

In Germany 117-film was called B1 6x6, while 120 was called B2 6x9.

takilmaboxer · Jan 17, 2023

My thanks to all. I have a nice collection of Zeiss, Agfa and Welta folders and am becoming interested in the Japanese cameras. Apparently their lenses evolved quite a bit over the years. And Zenobia even made a TLR.

JPD · Jan 17, 2023

Was it named after Queen Zenobia or the Elephant from the movie?

Donald Qualls · Jan 18, 2023

JPD said:
It must have been the 6x6 Icarette that took 117-film, because it had the markings for 6x6, which 120 didn't at the time.

Yep, and that's why the first generation Rolleiflex had a frame counter instead of red window advance. Same for the Super Ikonta B 562/16m a 1938 design (American 120 had a 6x6 track by then, but apparently German film didn't, or didn't always).

JPD · Jan 18, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
Yep, and that's why the first generation Rolleiflex had a frame counter instead of red window advance. Same for the Super Ikonta B 562/16m a 1938 design (American 120 had a 6x6 track by then, but apparently German film didn't, or didn't always).

I looked in the ICA catalog from 1922 and it indeed says for the Icarette I "Für Rollfilme 6x6 cm" and for the Icarette II it says "Für Rollfilme 6x9 cm"

You mean the second generation Rolleiflex, the Standard. The original Rolleiflex was made for 117-film only and used a red window on the back, but some had theirs converted to fit 120 spools and had third party counters installed. The early Rolleiflex Standard cameras could take both 117 and 120 and had two red windows, but only for lining up the first frame before engaging the mechanical counter.

Zenobia 120?

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