Zeiss Super Ikonta III vs. Rollei 2.8D Preference Query

[JWMster]

Loved the last discussion on Folders for travel, and trying to learn the Voigtlander, but wonder whether those of you with experience would consider the Zeiss Super Ikonta folders in the same class as the Rollei 2.8D's in terms of ruggedness, travel capability, ease of use, and quality of output. Yes, I "know" a Mamiya 6 is a sweetie, but the question is less wide opent here and really addressing these two systems. And yes, there is something to be said for the fact that Rollei's TLR's remained in steady production longer and Zeiss narrowed it's focus to just lenses. Survivorship isn't an accident.

Thoughts? Experience? Love to hear. Thanks.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I would choose the Rollei over any folder.

 

[btaylor]

I would choose the Rollei over any folder.

+1. It is much faster for me to set up and get a shot off with the Rollei. Pushing things a little further, I much prefer traveling with my Rolleicord or Automat as they are considerably lighter than the 2.8 models. To be honest, there isn't an optical superiority that I have been actually able to see between the Rollei 2.8 Planar and either of the 3.5 Xenars.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Mine is a '46 Automat with a spotlessly perfect Opton Tessar, which leaves nothing to be desired in IQ.

 

[R.Gould]

I would have my Rolleicord Rolleiflex Automat or my Microcord 2 over a folder for travelling anytime, I love folders and would use them on home ground anytime, but when travelling possibly with a once in a lofetime shot the the Tlr's win anytime for ruggardness and ease of use every time

 

[Jojje]

Like comparing apples and oranges.
Ikontas are fine cameras with almost useless viewfinders while a Rollei TLR is a brick with a fine viewfinder and doesn't fit into your pocket.

 

[EdSawyer]

yeah, I think if I was going to compare these, I'd compare something like a Bessa II heliar vs. Rollei. The bessa wins on compactness, and size of the neg, but the Rollei is faster and easier to shoot with most of the time, and way easier to compose with. But, much smaller image size, and just as finicky to load film into at least.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I have tried different folders and different TLRs. Any Rollei is above all of them. It is not just bare sharpness, but something a lot more in the image.
To me no any folder or TLR has it. Plus very solid and pleasing build.

 

[macfred]

I have both - Super Ikonta III 531/16 and Rolleiflex 3.5F - I choose the Rolleiflex over the folder because -for me- it's easier to compose and to focus. Output is nearly of equal value.
The Super Ikonta benefits from it's size - it fits the (inner-) pocket of my Tweed jacket.

 

[bunip]

I have the white face xenotar and the planar both 6 elements 3,5 F rolleys and many ikontas or superikontas with the same 75 3,5 Opton-Tessar. Image quality is different, much better in the rolleys ( but they are 6 elements lenses). Also composing is precise and focusing easy; with any folder everything is a little impredictable. What I suggest is that at the low price you can get a good quality folding camera there is no reason not to have one or two in your bag with your rolley!

 

[darinwc]

I've used a Super Ikonta iii on a couple of trips and it has worked very well.
It fits into a corner of my camera bag. I hardly know it is there.
Here are some examples:

https://flic.kr/p/SB4kyJ

Chichen Itza - On the Shoulder of Ancients

• darinwc
• Apr 6, 2017
• 1

Another view of the Chichen Itza pyramid. I always have a hard time picking out details. i envy...

Chichen Itza Pyramid basic

• darinwc
• Apr 3, 2017
• 6

Super Ikonta III
Tessar 75mm f3.5 @f16, yellow filter
Fuji Acros
-A basic view of the pyramid...

Coconut Bomber

• darinwc
• Mar 16, 2017

This guy was trimming the coconut trees at the resort where we stayed in Cancun.
He was nice...

 

[choiliefan]

If your aim is to have a lightweight pocket camera of good quality at a reasonably low price a Super Ikonta III with Tessar lens fits the bill.
I shoot an old Super Ikonta A folder with uncoated Tessar often with B&W and chrome film and love the results. It's no Rollei TLR but it
fits in the pocket or fanny pack. Lots of fun...

 

[mrosenlof]

Photo with a Super Ikonta IV - at least I think that's the model number. uncoupled selenium meter, 75mm/3.5 tessar... Ilford Delta 3200 at e.i. 1600.
Akihabara, Tokyo 2016

it's a tradeoff, one has a lousy viewfinder but you can fit in your pocket. One has lovely ground glass viewing and is bigger. pick your preference.

 

[BobMarvin11225]

My two favorite cameras are a Rollei 2.8E and a postwar Super Ikonta A, with a coated Tessar. I have no doubt that the Rollei is capable of sharper photographs BUT I can't really see any significant difference in 16 X 20 prints, the largest I can print at home.

 

[JWMster]

The wonder in my case is how much more portable the Rolleiflex TLR's relative to my 6008? The folders... definitely address this but perhaps at some cost in terms of reliability ( according to notes in various places ). I have less question about Rollei reliability but more about lens quality... given that some of the lenses have taken a real beating. Sellers always say "it won't affect pictures" 'cause heck... your buying won't affect THEIR pictures. But marks are scratches, and there is some effect. Maybe you still like the output... but the suggestion seems to be that perhaps a 5 element with rub marks is still better than a 3 element. The real thing is that the camera you have with you is the "best" one for the job. Good to see advocates for both cameras.... which suggests its NOT a slam dunk in favor of Rollei.

 

[bunip]

it could be enlightening to know what will you do with your negatives, if printed how large and what type of photography are you interested in. When i bought my mamiya 6 I discovered that it wasn't smaller and lighter with one lens than the rolley but less easy to shoot in the street compared to the TLR. You can leave your rolley in the bag or around your neck with the lens shade on and when you're ready take it out and shoot; if you bring the mamiya surely you'll collapse the lens, put on the cap and bring it in the bag, then you'll take it out, take out the cap, put on the lens shade.. I find it slower. When I went skiing in the alps this winter sometimes I brought the rolley and sometime the mamiya with the 50mm (last years it was a super isolette or the perkeo II or an isolette). No difference at all in weight or handling. the only difference was 75mm vs 50mm. Even folders resulted slower to use in the field.

 

[JWMster]

Okay... so I am a hybrid shooter, and make digital contact sheets with my negatives, select from there to scan on a Nikon LS8000, post in Capture One, and select again for export to TIFF, and use Imageprint to output to an Epson Surecolor P800. Target output is the 16 X 22, but usually I'll print to 8-1/2 X 11 first to select. Subjects everything from landscapes, urbanscapes (not "street" per se), flowers, gardens, people, and a few (mostly) family portraits. I love it when I have the time to go out and just shoot for a while, landscapes and just play with light, but on a trip with my wife, the "artsy fartsy" thing gets some time - she is incredibly patient and loves to go with me where I go and I love having her there, but I'm not really going to play with graduated ND filter set-ups and lots of fill flash in this. So it's more and set up less.

The plan is to take the Leica M6 with plenty of Portra film a meter, and a reasonably rugged, small MF for some B&W in the more suitable parts of Paris with wrought iron lights and good street shadows. The Leica shots I've run to 16 X 22 actually look great to me....not nearly as good and granularly clean as a Sony A7RII will do with a Loxia 35mm (or the Fuji X-Pro2 I shot before that), but I'm happier with the film color in just about all circumstances except that digital can grab some nice ISO 6400 color in very dark scenes where my film shooting still struggles. Purists won't like my hybrid stuff, but I;m happy with the control over the color and printing... and I like to print on matte with the goal of a frame under glass.. I prefer printing to web posting... 'cause there's the challenge, and web shots have to be reduced in size, so it's another export... and as I learned it, "it's not a photograph until it's printed." Some folks of course seem to think nothing matters much if all you do is scan your negatives, but I've not found that brush-off or catch-all quite on the mark. Yes, I imagine the challenges are different if you wet print, but they don't simply de-materialize 'cause you scan and print with ink. My Rolleiflex 6008 is a set-up and shoot camera, and where I look to do the creative, super slow stuff, and it can indeed handle fairly quick shooting, but it is heavy and tempts with choices To me, Leica and 35mm seem by contrast sort of a "sketch" camera in the sense of quick stuff, and easily portable.

Bunip, your comments on "the carry" seem on the mark. Appreciate any other input.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Folding cameras, especially older examples, can have lens - to - film alignment problems. They are inherently more delicate than a TLR (which is also subject to alignment and focussing issues). Also, a front element focussing lens is more of a compromise than the unit focussing lens on the TLR, and folders have bellows which can leak.
If ultimate portability is the overriding criterion, go with the Ikonta but check it out thoroughly; a good one is a superb camera. A Rollei on a neck strap is easier to hold steady and inherently a better camera, particularly if maximum image quality is desired.

 

[Svenedin]

I could never get on with TLR’s. To my mind bulky, awkward, slightly absurd and impossible to compose and focus. I’d go with a coupled rangefinder any day. I love my Super Ikontas

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I could never get on with TLR’s. To my mind bulky, awkward, slightly absurd and impossible to compose and focus. I’d go with a coupled rangefinder any day. I love my Super Ikontas

Spend one year using 10x8" format exclusively. Then, get a Rolleiflex; it will seem to be incredibly tiny, light, fast, and convenient.

 

[Svenedin]

Spend one year using 10x8" format exclusively. Then, get a Rolleiflex; it will seem to be incredibly tiny, light, fast, and convenient.

I don’t doubt that. My eyesight is too poor to achieve sharp focus on plain ground glass. I need some kind of aid. Either rangefinder or microprism/split image as in SLR. My brain is too small for reversed back to front composition. I was bad with TLRs when I was 20. I’d be vastly worse now!

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I don’t doubt that. My eyesight is too poor to achieve sharp focus on plain ground glass. I need some kind of aid. Either rangefinder or microprism/split image as in SLR. My brain is too small for reversed back to front composition. I was bad with TLRs when I was 20. I’d be vastly worse now!

Actually I find the gg on a view camera an aid to composition rather than a hindrance. Just forget that the trees are apparenly growing downward, and the rocks and water are defying gravity and treat them as shapes to be ordered. With practice, it is possible to pan with a Rollei. People who study brains say it's healthy to learn new ways of seeing.

 

[Svenedin]

Actually I find the gg on a view camera an aid to composition rather than a hindrance. Just forget that the trees are apparenly growing downward, and the rocks and water are defying gravity and treat them as shapes to be ordered. With practice, it is possible to pan with a Rollei. People who study brains say it's healthy to learn new ways of seeing.

I am one of those people who study brains! Yes healthy to learn new skills. Makes new connections in the wiring so to speak.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I am one of those people who study brains! Yes healthy to learn new skills. Makes new connections in the wiring so to speak.

Ooohhh have I got a project for you!

 

[choiliefan]

Rolleicord Vb with an older Rolleiflex waist level finder with the folding mirror sportfinder would be a lightweight travel companion.