Zeiss Ikon Nettar 518/16 shutter stuck

PaulDK · Dec 21, 2013

Hey guys.

I just bought the Zeiss Ikon Nettar 518/16 from the local flea market for around $18. It looks almost like new, but the shutter cocking lever is stuck. Is there a way I can fix that?

//Paul.

Newt_on_Swings · Dec 21, 2013

You need to take the lens and shutter assembly off the camera/bellows. Its probably held on in the rear with a locking ring. I worked on a similar camera, the zeiss super ikonta and that was what held the assembly. Then you should remove the lens cells to access the shutter. Use a spanner again and take off the front and back cells. In the front of my super ikonta there was a front lens ring that was secured by set screws your may or may not have it. Then the simplest thing to do without going further to disassembly, spray some naphtha onto the blades and try working them. It might just loosen up any crud and get it working again. This fix is not a good way to do it, as stuff that gets loosened might migrate and end up breaking something else. But at $18 its not a big deal. If you have never any camera repair it might be better to send it out and pay someone to get it working. Never force anything, take your time, and use the right tools.

PaulDK · Dec 21, 2013

Thanks. I have never repaired a camera before, so I will take it to a repair shop if I can track one down here in Denmark. I'm pretty cautious when it comes to cameras.

q_x · Dec 21, 2013

Paul, these cameras sometimes have double exposure prevention. If the mechanism is as simple, as in my Moskva, you only need to rotate winding dial a bit for the shutter button to become operable. Else - camera repair shop... "Wind" the dial (on camera body), cock the shutter (near the lens) and it should work.

blockend · Dec 21, 2013

I have three Nettars and yes, winding on usually fixes things. Another 'feature' is if you gently press the shutter without following through, the double exposure prevention mechanism counts this as a shot, and locks everything up so you have to wind on again.

elekm · Dec 21, 2013

Just to point out that you could spend more on service than you paid for the camera. But it's a one-time cost.

If you plan to buy more older cameras in the future, you should factor in the cost of service or try to buy one that's already been serviced.

Ian Grant · Dec 21, 2013

You can get a new shutter quite cheaply on Ebay, I'm assuming it's the small Prontor.

Ian

Newt_on_Swings · Dec 21, 2013

Usually the double exposure prevention i think is on the body itself, with my super ikonta you can depress the area next to the lens that the linkage connects and it will fire the shutter without needing to advance. I think getting a cheap working replacement shutter would be the best idea.

PaulDK · Dec 21, 2013

Sadly it didn't help by pressing the shutter button half way down or rotating the winding dial a bit. I noticed something right next to the bellow, which looks like a screw is missing. Could that be the problem?

Click image for larger version:

Anyhoo, if a repair cost the double of what I paid for the camera, well then the camera would be a nice display item on my shelf No big loss of money on my budget.

blockend · Dec 21, 2013

I stripped a Netta down without any prior experience, they're incredibly easy to work on. My guess is a linkage has come adrift rather than the shutter. I'd take the top off and have a poke around, you can't break something that doesn't work.

pbromaghin · Dec 21, 2013

This same thing happened on my Ikonta.

Yes, that missing screw very well could be the reason. It holds the linkage in place that reaches from the body to the shutter. When you push the shutter button down, the linkage should rotate around that screw to trip the shutter. Without the screw, the linkage shaft won't rotate. In the upper left of the picture at the other end of the linkage, a bright metal lever sticks out of the lens/shutter body. That is your shutter button. Press that and the shutter should operate.

Peltigera · Dec 21, 2013

That missing screw is definitely from the shutter release linkage but as Pbromagin says, the shutter can be fired from the lever on the shutter housing itself. Replacing the screw is likely to be difficult - just sourcing a suitable screw will be difficult, never mind fitting it.

PaulDK · Dec 21, 2013

pbromaghin said:
This same thing happened on my Ikonta.

Yes, that missing screw very well could be the reason. It holds the linkage in place that reaches from the body to the shutter. When you push the shutter button down, the linkage should rotate around that screw to trip the shutter. Without the screw, the linkage shaft won't rotate. In the upper left of the picture at the other end of the linkage, a bright metal lever sticks out of the lens/shutter body. That is your shutter button. Press that and the shutter should operate.

Yup, I found the lever and I'm able to fire the shutter now. Thank you very much. Now I just have to find a correct size screw, unless it's a special design screw

q_x · Dec 21, 2013

Yaay, a workingZeiss gear for sooo cheap!

Good luck finding proper screw BTW - having whole bag of spare parts, I'm very happy to find anything useful in it. There are no common sizes in this business. I'd start with camera repair shop to get the right screw, really. You'll pay like 10 crowns and that's it, done.
If the bellows are not hollow and the missing screw doesn't let any light onto the film, I'd say shoot with it, I know no better way to check for light leaks. I think you can also release the shutter with a cable release mounted onto the lens/shutter part of the camera, it's the right solution if you use a tripod anyways. There should be a threaded socket somewhere there to screw the cable in. (Note that Nettars may have older, wider 3/8 inch tripod thread, so you'll need an adapter to screw it onto modern tripod with 1/4 inch thread...)

PaulDK · Dec 21, 2013

I have put the bellow up against the light - no leaks from what I can see. I've also tried to mount the camera on my tripod head, and it fit. YAAAY

Pioneer · Dec 21, 2013

Load her up and fire away!

These old folders are a blast. But you probably should be careful. Medium format negatives are very addictive and normal people find they need more and more to be happy. Withdrawal can be very, very painful.

pbromaghin · Dec 22, 2013

By the way, don't let the linkage shaft separate from the body. Mine did and it cost me $65 (or was it $80?) to get it re-attached. My camera repair guy is a generalist with almost zero experience on these cameras and spent an hour figuring out how the baggie of parts I gave him fitted together.

And Pioneer is right. I have several 35mm bodies, a Mamiya tlr and a 4x5 studio rail camera, but the Ikonta 521/16 6x6 with zone focusing is the most fun camera I own. I really lust after a Zeiss 6x9.

gone · Dec 22, 2013

You might try your local hardware store for a screw. It's doubtful that you'll find the correct one, but you'll probably find one that will thread into it gently and hold things together w/o harming anything. Just bring your camera in there w/ you. The folks who work in the stores, in my experience, are always grateful to see something out of the ordinary, especially a camera like yours, and will be happy to help you. They generally know where everything in the store in too, saving you some time. If you're lucky you can find a brass or plastic screw that will sort of thread it's way in there w/o harming the harder piece you're screwing it into. Just put it in there tight enough to hold it together.

blockend · Dec 22, 2013

If you're enthusiastic about your Nettar, it might be worth buying one or two as donor bodies. Mine cost between £12 and £25 for a mint example, so as cheap as sourcing an individual spare part. How many medium format cameras fit in a jacket pocket so you can shoot a pair with monochrome and colour film, left and right?

claudius · Jan 12, 2014

hi poul
i just fixed my zeiss few weeks ago.
as told in previous post, disasemble the shutter and take off the lens.
to clean the shutter and iris, i bought some iso/propylalohol , poured enough to cover the shutter in a plastic bag.
then placed it in a michrowave spectacle cleaning unit for a couple of cycles.
according to my watchmaker, propyl works better than anything else and leaves no trace of oil.
only thing is, that if shutter is soaked for more than 5-10 min, printed letters might dissolve.
ocasionally you can dismantle printed areas.
work the shutter and iris while soaked wet, dip in fresh propyl and leave to dry.
if you have to oil. only oil visible parts in the shutter sparingly.
it works for me.
klaus

mgb74 · Jan 12, 2014

claudius said:
hi poul
i just fixed my zeiss few weeks ago.
as told in previous post, disasemble the shutter and take off the lens.
to clean the shutter and iris, i bought some iso/propylalohol , poured enough to cover the shutter in a plastic bag.
then placed it in a michrowave spectacle cleaning unit for a couple of cycles.
according to my watchmaker, propyl works better than anything else and leaves no trace of oil.
only thing is, that if shutter is soaked for more than 5-10 min, printed letters might dissolve.
ocasionally you can dismantle printed areas.
work the shutter and iris while soaked wet, dip in fresh propyl and leave to dry.
if you have to oil. only oil visible parts in the shutter sparingly.
it works for me.
klaus

I assume you mean a "ultrasonic", not "microwave".

Peltigera · Jan 13, 2014

Being metal, putting a shutter in a microwave is a no-no.

I would not oil any part of the shutter. Klio (Prontor) shutters are designed to run completely dry and oiling them will at best not help and at worst attract dust which will erode the moving parts.

elekm · Jan 14, 2014

A camera like this is probably 60 years old. It probably has never been serviced in its life. It would be surprising if it worked correctly.

I would guess that some routine service would bring it back into working order.

By the way, the cost of paying someone to service the camera would easily exceed what you paid for it.

josavi · Feb 17, 2014

If you have not found the proper screw yet and want to test it with film, use a cable release. But you have to remove the screw that covers the cable release socket on the shutter assembly, if you can find the proper screwdriver for it. (The slit is quite narrow)

Have inspected my Nettar, I believe the screw needed is a pivot screw. If you will use an ordinary screw, I think it will just lock up the linkage.

Peltigera · Feb 17, 2014

I have yet to see a screw covering the cable release socket. I suppose they might have been fitted on new cameras but none of my collection (just over 40) have a cover in place.

Zeiss Ikon Nettar 518/16 shutter stuck

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