Zeiss Ikon Nettar 515/2 with colour

Alex1994 · Jun 6, 2010

Hi

Can these old folders from the late 30s give good results on colour film? Was thinking that there would perhaps be aberrations since the lenses are not colour corrected...

Thanks

Alex

Ian Grant · Jun 6, 2010

These lenses are colour corrected, just not coated. It depends on the condition of the lens and it's contrast, i have various pre WWII Zeiss lenses and some are far better than others.

Ian

Alex1994 · Jun 6, 2010

Lens is the Novar-Anastigmat f4.5 105mm. It's in excellent condition.

Ian Grant · Jun 6, 2010

I have a 75mm Novar on a 6x4.5 Ikonta and it has very poor contrast despite looking in good condition, but you need to try your lens it may be fine, others get good results with them.

Ian

Karl K · Jun 6, 2010

Novars are not great...

...despite folks who claim that their Novar lens is wonderful. If you are looking for a "vintage" look, Novar lenses will not disappoint.

Color-Skopars and Heliars are much preferred for modern color work. Apo-Lanthars are hideously expensive due to collectors, but really not that much better with modern color films. YMMV.

R gould · Jun 6, 2010

I have an Ikonta B with a 75 coated nova and stoped down to around 8 I get good contrast and sharpness, maybe not up to modern standards, but for an old triplet it is very good indeed,Richard

ntenny · Jun 6, 2010

I've actually had decent luck shooting colour through Novars. Contrast is of course lower than it would be with a more modern lens, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, just a different look. I'd say it's certainly worth experimenting with.

IMHO, whether Novars are legitimately described as "great" depends on how you feel about triplets. The best Novar in the world is still a triplet, with the limitations of the design, and some people like the results a lot more than others. (I do tend to like them, personally.)

-NT

R gould · Jun 6, 2010

Nothing wrong with a triplet,I have a few cameras with them and stopped down a bit you can get a lovely "LOOK" to your photographs, which I like a lot,Richard

Ian Grant · Jun 6, 2010

Richard, I have or it may be had a wonderful Zeiss Triotar Triplet on a very early Rolleicord, the camera suffered damage stored in a damp cellar but I saved the lens. This lens had a wonderful feel in colour, I have some E4 shots somewhere of an ex girl friend made with the lens.

I've also just made a lens board & fitted a coated 105mm Trinar (Rodenstock's equivalent), this is for use on my nearly fully restored Quarter plate camera, with a 6x7 back (bought here on APUG.

I use pre-WWII lenses and much earlier - a pre WWI Zeiss Tessar surprisingly out performs a 30's Tessar in terms of contrast by quite a long way, it some 30's Zeiss lenses that seem to be the worst, Zeiss were using new glasses for some lenses and these don't seem to age well.

Ian

mightyomega · Jun 6, 2010

I have a Nettar 515 (6x4.5) with a Novar. Here's a picture I took with it, on Fuji Reala 100, of blessed memory.

Here's some other pictures I took with it, both color and black and white. I like the results, but I'm pompous and vain enough to like just about anything I do.

Alex1994 · Jun 6, 2010

Very interesting...still don't know whether to stick with mono or not. Does anyone have more examples of the 'Novar look'?

Ian Grant · Jun 6, 2010

You have to test for yourself, these lenses differ quite wildly after 70+ years

Ian

ntenny · Jun 6, 2010

Here's one of mine, but it's a postwar coated example: Nettar 518/16 with a 75/3.5 Novar. The film is Provia 100F. I've also shot, but not yet scanned, a couple of rolls in a 516/16 with an uncoated 75/4.5 Novar---my feeling from eyeballing the results is that the colour handling of the two is actually more similar than different, with the uncoated lens not unreasonably delivering a bit lower contrast.

I agree with Ian---you have to do some of your own testing, especially with Novars, which I gather were sourced from several different manufacturers.

-NT

dhosten · Feb 11, 2011

Alex, this is very late in the discussion, but go to Flickr and check out the work of Hen's March; B/W and colour from Nettars and other older cameras. You be the judge.... here are a few examples.

...bit of a shortcut
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=nettar&w=30445376@N05&ss=2&s=int

also...
http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?q=nettar&m=pool&s=int&w=63115585@N00&z=t

Ed Sukach · Feb 12, 2011

"Color correction" is NOT intended for "color fidelity; it is done to get light of different wavelengths to all fall in the same place on the film. I have seen poorly corrected lenses where the edge of an image will vary between ~ orange (something like that) and blue at the extremeties of the field.
Edge definition will be affected - on black and white film, as well as color.

PaulMD · Feb 15, 2011

I shoot color negative film through my (coated) f/3.5 Novar Ikonta. It is what it is: they were consumer lenses, not designed for crazy enlargement, and you won't get good results shooting ANY triplet wide open. Stop down to f/8 (maybe f/5.6) and the results are perfectly acceptable for web scans. No, it's not sharp all the way down to the grain, yes, the contrast isn't the greatest, but I paid $25 for it and I'm satisfied. Missed focus is a much bigger problem than lens quality.

A couple example shots from our local carnival:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42376949@N05/4867395000/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42376949@N05/4794651388/

Nicholas Lindan · Feb 15, 2011

The enthusiasm for Novars isn't because they are great lenses but because they are an awful lot better than one would expect. The 6x6 or 6x9 negative size is a big help in image quality - as a result the pictures from a Nettar can compare favorably with the best 35mm equipment.

PaulMD · Feb 15, 2011

Yeah, 35mm is 24x36, so 864mm^2 image area. 6x6 is 56mmx56mm image area, so 3136mm^2, 3.6x the area. If a good 35mm lens delivers 80lp/mm, a folder needs to deliver 22 lp/mm to match it. The 6x6 negative will be easier to actually get the detail off of (drum scans = $$$) and there will be less grain. Of course, there's less depth of field, unless it's a Zeiss film flatness and standard rigidity will be an issue, and guess focusing adds another way to lose a shot.

Zeiss Ikon Nettar 515/2 with colour

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