Zeiss ikon IR safe?

fran · Sep 4, 2014

Hi all,

I have a Zeiss ikon nettar 515/2 with the standard novar 105mm lens. Can anyone verify that the bellows is IR safe (without me having to burn a roll to test)?

The whole camera is light tight for normal film....

Fran

AgX · Sep 4, 2014

You don't need a whole role.

Just a snippet, partly shielded (as with a paperclip) and placed inside the bellows.

fran · Sep 4, 2014

I know, but that would mean (for me anyway - 120 film) opening the roll, unrolling it, taking a piece off the end etc. I just was hoping someone might have done this already given how many of these cameras there are out there.

Thanks for the suggestion - its what I'll do if I have to....

Fran

gzinsel · Sep 4, 2014

If the bellows are light tight, then you are good to go! Look, IR film allows a few more wavelengths, its not x-ray! some people load in subdued light, correct. some in complete darkness, ( not necessary), but if you feel more comfortable, go for it! last time I checked 600-800 nm could/can not go through black leather/cloth. However if your film is fogged, usually its because of poor technique of loading and unloading film, and/or processing film.

cheers,

snapguy · Sep 4, 2014

pay

You wanna play, you gotta pay.

Newt_on_Swings · Sep 4, 2014

gzinsel said:
If the bellows are light tight, then you are good to go! Look, IR film allows a few more wavelengths, its not x-ray! some people load in subdued light, correct. some in complete darkness, ( not necessary), but if you feel more comfortable, go for it! last time I checked 600-800 nm could/can not go through black leather/cloth. However if your film is fogged, usually its because of poor technique of loading and unloading film, and/or processing film.

cheers,

For 35mm you need to load in the dark as the light pipes in through the leader and can fog the first few shots.

fran · Sep 6, 2014

Well,

I went off and bought a roll of 35mm IR film to try out. Cut a snippet from the end and put it inside the camera. Left the camera outside for about 20mins.... and the result is,,,,, not IR safe.

The reason I was a bit worried about this was that I also do some LF work, and I know that the bellows on my chamonix is not IR safe - but is very definitely light tight.

So beware!!

Newt_on_Swings · Sep 6, 2014

Maybe wrap the whole thing up in aluminum foil and leave only the lens and film advance knob open. That would let you shoot IR most likely.

AgX · Sep 6, 2014

Or sacrifice every 2nd frame and keep the area you want to expose on within in the image window only for roughly the time of exposure.

fran · Sep 6, 2014

thanks guys for the suggestions. I'm so glad I did the test now - and maybe the info will be good for others in the future.

The zeiss will stay at home for this trip - and will stay on "normal" B&W duty where it does a very nice job indeed. I'll most likely shoot the IR in 35mm I think.

Fran

eSPhotos · Sep 6, 2014

fran said:
The reason I was a bit worried about this was that I also do some LF work, and I know that the bellows on my chamonix is not IR safe - but is very definitely light tight.
So beware!!

This is good to know, fran.
And that could be the reason why my 4x5 IR (Efke) come out heavy fogged using Toyo 45A.

What type of bellows on your chamonix?

ME Super · Sep 6, 2014

Here are some shots I personally made with Rollei IR400S: (there was a url link here which no longer exists). In a rangefinder or TLR at sunny 16 conditions, you could handhold it at EI25 with a 720nm (#89B) filter. If you're using an SLR, I'd recommend a tripod since you can't see through the filter very well. What's surprising is there's some Wood effect visible with just a #25 red filter. Not overpowering, but it's there.

Denverdad · Sep 7, 2014

Hi fran. Are you pretty sure that the film wasn't exposed via your loading/unloading and/or processing techniques, like someone mentioned earlier? Or perhaps in the camera but though a route other than through the bellows? E.g.,could it be that the 35mm film was susceptible to a leak at the rear window that just never showed up with 120 film (due to the paper backing)? I only ask because I am surprised to hear that this type of bellows would be permeable to the very limited range of infrared wavelengths to which today's IR films are sensitive. But I suppose it is possible. What film was this, anyway?

My only experience so far with a bellows camera and infrared film was using an Agfa Record III and Efke IR820c. I would have thought the bellows in other folders were comparable, but maybe I just got lucky!

Jeff

AgX · Sep 7, 2014

APUGuser19 said:
Now, tell us where there is any IR film.

Ilford Photo and even more so Agfa (available under the Rollei brand too) offer films sensitized to short-length IR radiation.

fran · Sep 7, 2014

IR film - seems there's only the Rollei or else Ilford SFX. I loved Efke 820 but its gone now. And yes, I know loads will say that they aren't true IR.

On the leaks - no I don't think so. I used a fresh 35mm roll of Efke IR820 aura, opened the canister in teh dark, snipped the bit off the start of the roll (to about 3 or 4 frames in) and inserted straight into the bellows. Closed the door, and the window for film counting was closed. So I don't think there is anyway for the leaks other than through the bellows. It seems so counter-intuitive that the bellows is IR leaky but normal safe - I didn't think it was possible, but the warning that came with the chamonix was niggling away at me. I really didn't want to end up home from a trip to Tuscany and all my IR film fogged.

I'll most likely shoot 35mm now instead - I have an EOS3 which is the most recent canon that didn't use an IR diode for counting. It'll use the same lenses as the (ahem) digital camera I'm also packing.

fran

fran · Sep 7, 2014

It was the standard bellows with the 045n-2. I think that some of the newer ones after that were IR safe....

More info:

http://www.largeformatphotography.i...00567-IR-safe-bellows-for-Chamonix-Arca-Swiss

and a solution using mylar foil from an emergency kit:

http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/00aNwP

Fran

Zeiss ikon IR safe?

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