Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex Favorit 887/16

campy51 · Dec 9, 2021

I just bought one in good mechanical and cosmetic condition but the light meter does not work. Is there any chance of repairing it? I don't have it my hands yet but I thought I would do the research now. I know most will use a hand held meter but it would be nice to have. Who is our resident Ikoflex TLR guru?

Pioneer · Dec 9, 2021

Probably only repairable if you have a parts camera with a working meter. However, I suspect that the meter cell is probably going to be inaccurate by now.

Touch base with Mark Hansen at ZeissIkonRolleiRepair.com for a more complete answer. He won't work on them but he does know quite a bit about them.

Nice cameras btw. I really enjoyed working with mine while it was still working.

Donald Qualls · Dec 9, 2021

I seem to recall there being a Russian or Ukrainian source for new (or new old stock) selenium cells, which can be adjusted by painting over part of the sensitive surface (as well as adjusting the parts of the circuit meant to be adjusted). Been a while since I read it, though, so the source may have dried up.

AZD · Dec 9, 2021

I’ve had one since 1997 and the meter didn’t work even back then. As a result I always used a handheld meter, no big deal.

Hopefully everything else stays working as they aren’t fun to repair and apparently few if any techs will even try. I’ve had mine apart more times than I can count to adjust things here and there. Totally worth it though for two reasons: The lens is fantastic, and it’s fun to use.

AZD · Dec 9, 2021

One other quirk. If I remember correctly, the meter readout is an EV scale on the ground glass, which was then supposed to be transferred to the coupled shutter/aperture dials with corresponding EV selected. Not exactly intuitive.

choiliefan · Dec 9, 2021

You might find an Ikoflex 1C with a good cell to switch out.
Many more 1C's in the wild than Favorits.

campy51 · Dec 9, 2021

This is the one I bought. They will probably remove it from the site tonight so it will probably be a dead link soon.
https://www.natcam.com/products/zeiss-ikon-ikoflex-favorit-887-16/

beemermark · Dec 9, 2021

AZD said:
One other quirk. If I remember correctly, the meter readout is an EV scale on the ground glass, which was then supposed to be transferred to the coupled shutter/aperture dials with corresponding EV selected. Not exactly intuitive.

The meter displayed an arbitrary number which you then transferred to a scale on the side of the camera. You then transferred that number to the lens & shutter scale. Most counter-intuitive meter I've ever seen. Great little camera as good or better than a late model Rolleicord. I would suggest using a hand held meter.

JPD · Dec 9, 2021

Yes, use a hand held meter instead. That Zeiss Oberkochen Tessar is the same as used on Rolleiflexes, like my 3,5 B, and should be excellent.

AZD · Dec 9, 2021

beemermark said:
The meter displayed an arbitrary number which you then transferred to a scale on the side of the camera. You then transferred that number to the lens & shutter scale. Most counter-intuitive meter I've ever seen.

Pretty sure that’s the EV (exposure value) system. It simply translates the light intensity to a number value which corresponds to various shutter/aperture combinations. For instance, 1/125 @ f8 (a common exposure for me using FP4 in daylight) is EV13. With the indicator at 13 the shutter and aperture are linked so that any combination you select still admits the same amount of light, like 1/30 @ f16.

Not that confusing until you realize the scale is based on ISO 100, so for other film speeds you have to translate the metered EV and set a new number on the dial. That’s what the scale on the side was for. Ridiculous. Some older handheld meters would give the translated EV based on the selected ISO, not possible with the simple needle on the Ikoflex.

Anyhoo… by the time you get that process figured out and make an exposure, the light has changed, and the guy with the Leicameter already took 36 exposures with the lens cap on, downed a martini, and bought some new skis.

As mentioned though, killer lens. Sharp and smooth at the same time. Don’t know how that works, but it does.

beemermark · Dec 9, 2021

No, the meter scale is NOT the EVS system. You need to read what the pointer is reading on the meter scale inside the ground glass, then turn the camera over and read the corresponding EVS scale on the side of the camera.

beemermark · Dec 9, 2021

beemermark said:
No, the meter scale is NOT the EVS system. You need to read what the pointer is reading on the meter scale inside the ground glass, then turn the camera over and read the corresponding EVS scale on the side of the camera. Here's the manual https://www.butkus.org/chinon/zeiss_ikon/zeiss_ikon_ikoflex_ia_iia_ic/zeiss_ikon_ikoflex.htm In this manual you transfer the meter setting to a rotating knob to get the shutter and aperature values. Mine had an engraved plate on the side.

All in all I think the Ikoflex are highly under rated cameras.

AZD · Dec 10, 2021

beemermark said:
No, the meter scale is NOT the EVS system. You need to read what the pointer is reading on the meter scale inside the ground glass, then turn the camera over and read the corresponding EVS scale on the side of the camera.

Well, my meter always read “broken”. Sorry for the confusion.

Regardless, the system is all but absurd, and the guy with the Leicameter is now on a gondola in Venice while we’re yet to set the exposure… Everyone agree with handheld meter then?

campy51 · Dec 10, 2021

I will probably only use occasionally anyway since I have 2 Rolleiflex's and a Autocord.

grat · Dec 10, 2021

AZD said:
Not that confusing until you realize the scale is based on ISO 100, so for other film speeds you have to translate the metered EV and set a new number on the dial. That’s what the scale on the side was for. Ridiculous. Some older handheld meters would give the translated EV based on the selected ISO, not possible with the simple needle on the Ikoflex.

Anyhoo… by the time you get that process figured out and make an exposure, the light has changed, and the guy with the Leicameter already took 36 exposures with the lens cap on, downed a martini, and bought some new skis.

I use an ancient Soligar spot meter, and find the EV system refreshingly direct. It makes averaging light values over the range of a scene very simple, and the helpful dial on the side of the meter makes it very quick to find the right EV/ISO combination. While the meter has a dial for ASA, really, is it that hard to add or subtract an EV value? Oh, this is ISO 100, and my film's 400? +2 EV. Look up EV 14 instead of 12.

It is quite literally a system that allows you to come up with an exposure, independent of shutter/aperture, yet still get the right combination of shutter/aperture, in order to get a reasonable exposure.

I think the system was only abandoned because light meter manufacturers wanted you to believe their new systems were absolutely essential for navigating basic math.

AZD · Dec 11, 2021

The EV system is fine with me, it’s just the way it was implemented on the Ikoflex meter that confuses things. I may be one of the few people who actually like the coupled shutter/aperture setup. I had it on my Ikoflex and a Retina Ib, at one time my only cameras (not including an Argus C3 Matchmatic, speaking of arbitrary metering systems) and I learned to like it. Beyond the EV system, it’s great for Sunny 16. Like this: Afternoon direct sunlight and FP4 get me 1/125 at f8. Click click click 1/125 @ f8. But I want to isolate the subject better… scroll scroll scroll to f3.5 @ 1/Whatever because it’s already set. Really slick.

However, between the financial schemes of light meter manufacturers vs. the tendency of the general public to reject math in any form, I think it was just too thinky for old Uncle Dave on his Hawaiian vacation. EV was a step towards auto exposure, then autofocus, then digital compacts, then iPhones. Some form of it is still at work behind every modern camera, minus the thinking.

Anyhow, Ikoflex = excellent images. Took mine out today to admire it. And it is admirable.

JPD · Dec 11, 2021

grat said:
I use an ancient Soligar spot meter, and find the EV system refreshingly direct. It makes averaging light values over the range of a scene very simple, and the helpful dial on the side of the meter makes it very quick to find the right EV/ISO combination. While the meter has a dial for ASA, really, is it that hard to add or subtract an EV value? Oh, this is ISO 100, and my film's 400? +2 EV. Look up EV 14 instead of 12..

Do you have the analog or digital version of that spot meter? I have the digital version, named "CAPITAL", somewhere, I haven't seen it in a while. It taught me how to use the EV system in practice. That meter and two other "CAPITAL" meters, one selenium and one with a battery, gave different (but consistent) readings compared to my Gossen Sixtomat Digital. The modern Gossen meter wants me to expose exactly one stop less which messes things up.

grat · Dec 11, 2021

JPD said:
Do you have the analog or digital version of that spot meter? I have the digital version, named "CAPITAL", somewhere, I haven't seen it in a while. It taught me how to use the EV system in practice. That meter and two other "CAPITAL" meters, one selenium and one with a battery, gave different (but consistent) readings compared to my Gossen Sixtomat Digital. The modern Gossen meter wants me to expose exactly one stop less which messes things up.

It's the "Cambron" rebadge of the Soligar analog. Nice swing needle, unless you're in the dark.

Very similar to the older pentax, with the lookup dial(s) on the side instead of around the front element.

Pioneer · Dec 11, 2021

I did love the lens on my Favorit. I wonder if it would be possible to move the lens to one of my other Ikoflex cameras?

JPD · Dec 11, 2021

grat said:
It's the "Cambron" rebadge of the Soligar analog. Nice swing needle, unless you're in the dark.

Very similar to the older pentax, with the lookup dial(s) on the side instead of around the front element.

Ok, the older one. Very good and affordable meters, and the 9V battery is easy to find. The analog needle one was still available, but I chose the digital one, thinking that the big red numbers are easier to read in the dark.

campy51 · Dec 13, 2021

My camera is scheduled for delivery today so I have read the manual on film loading and it seems awkward if the film counter is not on twelve. Does anyone know if I can check shutter speeds without having film in it?

Alex Varas · Dec 14, 2021

If it works as other Ikoflexes you can push and turn CW the counting knob and place it in #1 then the camera you can operate the camera normally until you do 12 frames.

campy51 · Dec 15, 2021

Anyone know how to repair the meters in this camera or know where I can get one?

gone · Dec 15, 2021

You might ask the folks you bought the camera from. All my dealings with National Camera have been very positive, they're knowledgeable camera people from way back.

Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex Favorit 887/16

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