Zeiss-Ikon 521/16 issue

Agulliver · Apr 9, 2023

Something weird has started to happen with one of my Zeiss-Ikon folders. It's been working fine, I have used it quite a bit in recent times. No issues.

Latest roll of Fomapan 400 has come out weird. See the attached photo where I was trying to focus on the scooter in the foreground. I set the focus to 5 feet as I judged that was the distance between myself and the scooter. Aperture was f8.

How come the scooter is out of focus and the hotel some 50 feet away is in focus - yet the hotel name should be straight and has a wavy look to it?

It's definitely not a scanning fault.

Kino · Apr 9, 2023

Check to see if your lens is folding out and locking in place correctly. It could be randomly not locking into the proper position; especially if you unfold the camera rapidly.

Agulliver · Apr 9, 2023

Kino said:
Check to see if your lens is folding out and locking in place correctly. It could be randomly not locking into the proper position; especially if you unfold the camera rapidly.

Sounds like a good suggestion as I do tend to unfold it fast. And this hasn't affected all photos on the roll, about half...dotted throughout the roll. Maybe I was just too enthusiastic with it. Will be more careful next time and see what happens.

Donald Qualls · Apr 9, 2023

Waviness of a straight hotel front also implies either a scanning problem (film not flat) or film that got pulled forward by air movement when the bellows snapped open (generally more likely the bigger the negative -- 6x9 can do this, but 6x4.5 much less so). This would put the film closer to the lens than expected and move your plane of focus away from the camera (if you'd been focused at 50 feet instead of 5, it might have focused "past infinity") -- as well as film curvature introducing geometric distortion.

Ian Grant · Apr 9, 2023

Looks like you pulled the lens out quickly sucking the film away from the backing paper.

Ian

Agulliver · Apr 9, 2023

Though it's not happened before in 45 years of using Zeiss-Ikon folders, I see the idea of the film being pulled away from the plane of focus by rapid pulling out of the lens as a possible cause. I've just developed a second film shot a couple of days later which has similar issues....no bending but most photos focused about 20 feet away when I was adjusting the focus ring to 5-8 feet...this time with f4.5 so small DOF.

I doubt the camera has suddenly developed a fault and I can see the issues are there on the negatives so it's not the scan. THanks for the advice, I'll try being extra careful with the opening of the front and seating the lens into position.

Donald Qualls · Apr 10, 2023

Another thing that could potentially do this is if the front element pair is screwing out of the shutter with focus adjustment instead of the front element moving further from the second. This happens when the old grease starts to harden up, and this movement has very little effect on the focus distance vs. front element only movement. That wouldn't produce the bending, though.

albertphot · Apr 10, 2023

My thoughts are that there could be two problems. One with the lens; you have some sort of Scheimpflug in your picture ( the mirror is sharp as are the store and the left bottom part of the zebra crossing ) but it's not aligned so there could be something wrong with the lens. And two; there's something with the flatness of the film, hence the strange deformation of the store. I don't think it's a scanning issue because the dust particles, on the image, are sharp! So I would first check the pressure plate and the door if it's well closed and afterward do a check with a ground glass and a magnifier.

takilmaboxer · Apr 10, 2023

FWIW, first I open the camera slowly, and advancing the film is the last step; hopefully to keep the film tensioned. I have experienced a similar problem when the front element starts to get loose, like post #7 suggested.

pbromaghin · Apr 10, 2023

I think the balcony itself is a bit curved and so is misleading us. But the focus on the pavement at middle distance past the scooter is not consistent - the left is close to focused but on the right it isn't. It's difficult for a 521/16 front standard to get out of alignment bacause it's just plain built right. I would tend to suspect the film flatness as a result of too-fast opening and loose film. I can't comment on the front element pair being out of line, but it would make sense.

Nicholas Lindan · Apr 10, 2023

I'm not a believer in suckage. I've never seen suckage in 60 years of using Nettars. The physics of the thing say it is impossible. If it happened Zeiss would have fixed it long ago - they have been making pop-out folders since the 1920's. If suckage/popping still happened it would be common. But people should, and will, believe what they want - self included.

As pbromaghin has pointed out the entrance roof is curved and there is no distortion.

Something in the front standard coming loose would shift the focus closer.

I have to throw my towel in with Donald Qualls' suggestion that the entire front cell has come unscrewed. There was a case of this on a Nettar previously on photrio; the problem is much more common on Agfa's with their famous solidifying green lube. The front lens element should move an ooch less than 0.1"/2.5mm from infinity to closest focus. If it doesn't then the focusing scale needs to be removed and the front cell screwed back in tightly. Be sure to make a few scratch marks so the focusing scale can go back in the right position.

henryvk · Apr 11, 2023

Let's have a look at the negative just to rule out a scanning error.

Agulliver · Jun 4, 2023

Just remembered this thread. I used this camera again at a gig a couple of weeks ago where every subject was maximum 9 feet from me. I was careful to open/unfold it slowly and everything came out fine....even at f4.5 with very shallow depth of field.

So it must be something to do with how I was having fun opening it fast. Not happened with other Zeiss-Ikon folders that I've had in the last 46 years but clearly is an issue here.

Donald Qualls · Jun 5, 2023

Agulliver said:
it must be something to do with how I was having fun opening it fast.

Might well be that the front standard is landing at a slightly different angle (a "tilt" in LF terms) when you snap it open vs. easing it open...

Agulliver · Jun 6, 2023

I didn't notice anything and I was careful to ensure everything clicked into place but it's certainly possible. Anyway, lesson learned....with that specific camera anyway.

Nicholas Lindan · Jun 6, 2023

Ah, but it's not proven yet.

A series of photos with the front popped out quickly and with the front popped out slowly that shows problems with the fast shots and no problems with the slow shots would put the matter to rest. Camera on tripod, photographing a flat detailed subject - ideally a wall covered with resolution targets - with the lens wide open.

I'd undetake to do the test but none of my cameras has ever exhibited any sign of suckage.

Zeiss-Ikon 521/16 issue

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