Your thoughts and wishes - online film store

I'd love someone in the region to supply alt process chems - Pt/Pd, Collodion etc...

Also get in touch with Fuji/Ilford and get on board the ULF runs etc...

NZ is a JOKE for film and chem supply (Kodak took 5 months to deliver an E6 kit) - you really have to do your research, and/or fork out for the international shipping

nick mulder said:

I'd love someone in the region to supply alt process chems - Pt/Pd, Collodion etc...

Also get in touch with Fuji/Ilford and get on board the ULF runs etc...

NZ is a JOKE for film and chem supply (Kodak took 5 months to deliver an E6 kit) - you really have to do your research, and/or fork out for the international shipping

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What photographic magazines do you have in NZ? I might advertise in one.

Hey, Andrew, Protectan seems to work pretty well. And in my experience (from my PhD 20 years ago) decent regulators can be prohibitively expensive.

I would like a film store that sells EVERYTHING produced by ALL manufacturers, for all markets. I would love to be able to go to one place and simply know that they will have WHATEVER I am looking for...and WHATEVER THERE IS. There are many good online film sources, but none that I know of truly offer 100% selection of all available goods. That would be a deal maker for me, personally. It is so hard to keep track of what films, papers, and chemicals are available in what markets, and when, as it is had to keep track of what products are actually being made (or no longer being made) by manufacturers. Even their own Websites are often unhelpful in this regard. I really wish that I could get things like Fuji Natura, 120 Superia 100 and 400, and whatever papers (AND whatever surfaces) are available, alongside my regularly-purchased items (like HP5, Delta 3200, Reala, etc.). If this place existed, and had competitive prices, I would patronize it almost exclusively.

I just checked the can and Protectan is 20 - 40% propane and >60% n-butane.

Kevin Caulfield said:

I just checked the can and Protectan is 20 - 40% propane and >60% n-butane.

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Wouldn't that make for a hazardous substance & Aust post will not post ? Propane & Butane are flammable substances.

Interesting point. It's not even legit to send batteries through (overseas) post, much less chemical in active or inactive state. Not sure about Australia Post. The devil is in the detail and finding out just what can and what cannot be sent, by whatever mail service is available, is a good idea.

2F/2F said:

I would like a film store that sells EVERYTHING produced by ALL manufacturers, for all markets. I would love to be able to go to one place and simply know that they will have WHATEVER I am looking for...and WHATEVER THERE IS. There are many good online film sources, but none that I know of truly offer 100% selection of all available goods. That would be a deal maker for me, personally. It is so hard to keep track of what films, papers, and chemicals are available in what markets, and when, as it is had to keep track of what products are actually being made (or no longer being made) by manufacturers. Even their own Websites are often unhelpful in this regard. I really wish that I could get things like Fuji Natura, 120 Superia 100 and 400, and whatever papers (AND whatever surfaces) are available, alongside my regularly-purchased items (like HP5, Delta 3200, Reala, etc.). If this place existed, and had competitive prices, I would patronize it almost exclusively.

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I am trying to get all of the above but i don't want to be stuck with stock i can't sell. In fact i am in the process of getting Natura 1600 as a few of my friends are desperate for it.

I'll put together a list of products which i want to stock upon startup and you guys can add anything which you want

andrewkirkby said:

I am trying to get all of the above but i don't want to be stuck with stock i can't sell. In fact i am in the process of getting Natura 1600 as a few of my friends are desperate for it.

I'll put together a list of products which i want to stock upon startup and you guys can add anything which you want

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The logistics and business considerations are as you mention. I would not expect such a store to have everything in stock. I just want the store to have EVERYTHING listed, and available for special order if desired.

BTW, I did a little Internet searching, and I think it sounds like Natura 1600 is the same thing as Superia 1600, which I believe is either discontinued, or no longer a U.S. product. (I had been told that it looks very different, but I guess it was B.S.) However, if it is still available, I would definitely buy two press packs of it (to start).

FWIW .... having owned several small businesses is to start conservative and small. Be very selective in your offerings. Keep your costs shaved to the bone. Carve a micro niche within the analog macro niche. Customer service will make you or break you and so will costs, costs, costs.

As for shipping my rule would be charge real world price only, do not profit off shipping. Eliminate handling charges and apply a packaging charge only, it's different. Don't confuse the two. Handling charges are generally a rip off. A box, peanuts and tape doesn't cost much. However, shipping does so minimize those costs to your customers by eliminating that bogus handling charge. I know a little about this, I own a pack and ship store. What can affect your shipping is fuel surcharges, those are real costs imposed on you by the carriers, just don't inflate them. Shipping rates are bad enough without people trying to profit off them on the goods they sell.

Good luck to you, I admire anyone's efforts in small business endeavours. It takes courage, hard work and determination. Sell a good product with a fair margin and great customer service, all the while keeping all costs minimized and you will be successful.

John

Things I am definitely interested in that I can't get just anywhere, any time:

Superia Reala medium format
Superia 400 medium format
Superia 100 medium format
Superia 800 135-36, press pack (I am finding it extremely painful to live without this film, so if it is still MADE, I wants it!)
Superia 1600 135-36, press pack
RA-4 paper, matte surface, all varieties (Though I almost always print 11x14 and smaller, I would buy the occasional box or two of 16x20 for a project.)
Ilfochrome paper, all varieties (same notes as for the RA paper)
C-41 hand tank kit with separate bleach and fixer (Fuji has a 5 L kit, and Kodak.....well, I think most of us need help figuring out exactly what Kodak has so we can put together a kit.)
RA-4 home chemistry kit (Kodak or Fuji - You might have to put together the kit, or at least tell us what components to buy to make a batch)
12x16 black and white fiber-based paper

I would also be interested in seeing the full list of paper sizes that all paper manufacturers cut.

Other than that, your normal stuff that most places have would cover most of what I need.

I have attached a brief description of the products i will keep initially.

Working on a few more additions to that list but i will advise once i know

If you have a moment, have a look at the spreadsheet and give any recommendations you feel necessary.

Andrew:

If you were in Canada, I would buy from you .

Is there demand for Kodak Portra 140/400 NC in 220 size in Australia/New Zealand? I think that there still is demand here in North America.

John R. said:

FWIW .... having owned several small businesses is to start conservative and small. Be very selective in your offerings. Keep your costs shaved to the bone. Carve a micro niche within the analog macro niche. Customer service will make you or break you and so will costs, costs, costs.

As for shipping my rule would be charge real world price only, do not profit off shipping. Eliminate handling charges and apply a packaging charge only, it's different. Don't confuse the two. Handling charges are generally a rip off. A box, peanuts and tape doesn't cost much. However, shipping does so minimize those costs to your customers by eliminating that bogus handling charge. I know a little about this, I own a pack and ship store. What can affect your shipping is fuel surcharges, those are real costs imposed on you by the carriers, just don't inflate them. Shipping rates are bad enough without people trying to profit off them on the goods they sell.

Good luck to you, I admire anyone's efforts in small business endeavours. It takes courage, hard work and determination. Sell a good product with a fair margin and great customer service, all the while keeping all costs minimized and you will be successful.

John

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Hi John,

Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate people taking their time to assist me in any way possible.

I will be charging shipping exactly what it costs, and if necesssary including a packaging charge for items over a certain size or volumetric weight - items which will require cartons or special packing materials.

Initially i will utilise prepaid satchels for the small item shipping, that way the cost is fixed and the postage is totally prepaid, avoiding bills later. Australia post do not give their premium services to people unless they ship at least 1500 parcels p/a - so there is no cost advantage for me or customers until that quota is attainable.

I am in discussions with a logistics company who can assist with shipping the large or dangerous items via road.

Also, i'll be carrying a good range of products, buying in enough stock to get a reasonable price but also not getting too much that i can't sell within a reasonable timeframe.
A lot of products have quite a long shelf life but others are dated for about 12 months from manufacture (slide films, for example)

andrewkirkby said:

I have attached a brief description of the products i will keep initially.

Working on a few more additions to that list but i will advise once i know

If you have a moment, have a look at the spreadsheet and give any recommendations you feel necessary.

Click to expand...

You have got me drooling...all the best

MattKing said:

Andrew:

If you were in Canada, I would buy from you .

Is there demand for Kodak Portra 140/400 NC in 220 size in Australia/New Zealand? I think that there still is demand here in North America.

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I think most people will buy 120 size rolls purely because their camera back is designed for 120. Personally, i have bought 220 backs for my cameras because they are cheaper and can still use 120 film without too many issues. 220 film saves about 1/3 in film cost and about the same in processing.

I'm not sure which 220 films i can get, but i will investigate.

That's a very comprehensive list of goodies to service the analogue underbelly Andrew. But you'd need I think to determine how much stock you can move, how quickly and how often the cycle is, rather than bring in a massive amount of stuff in a shipping container and have it expire before it is sold, or worse, some other "flavour of the month" turns a certain stock line into a "white elephant". Always a risk, so could be a good idea to have a list of what you can stock and actually buy in on a particular individual's request for it.

Once the shop is up and running, alright, form and orderly queue...

Poisson Du Jour said:

That's a very comprehensive list of goodies to service the analogue underbelly Andrew. But you'd need I think to determine how much stock you can move, how quickly and how often the cycle is, rather than bring in a massive amount of stuff in a shipping container and have it expire before it is sold, or worse, some other "flavour of the month" turns a certain stock line into a "white elephant". Always a risk, so could be a good idea to have a list of what you can stock and actually buy in on a particular individual's request for it.

Once the shop is up and running, alright, form and orderly queue...

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Ideally i'd have all stock turned over every six months. I have a fair idea of what will sell well and what will be slower moving. As to how it will go in the real world, that is another story.

I'll be utilising eBay to sell products as well. There is a lot of people out there who don't come on apug for example. Even though the fees to sell on eBay are ridiculous, it is still a great way to gain more customers.

I am going to sell toy cameras too (Holga etc). I see those becoming a popular item for this business.

I didn't think your list looked over the top. Starting to look good Andrew

Having worked in the photographic industry for over 20 years I have to congratulate you on having a go - I wish you all the best.

I agree with those people who have advised caution - start small, then build your stock levels as sales grow.

Your list of stock is very comprehensive - dare I say too comprehensive? Have you looked at minimum order quantities from the various distributors? Some of the lines you may want to stock may well turn out to be too expensive to stock based on expected sales/MOQ/prices from other on line vendors.

You also need to consider the expiry dates on stock - as an example I ordered through a Kodak distributor I know some 100 ISO Slide film - it expires 5/2011. They ordered the film for me directly from Kodak (this would have been around March this year - before Kodak handed all distribution over to APS). 14 months dating on film is not good from a commercial point of view...I for one don't like to buy film with less than 2 years to go to expiry..

Now I know, you know, and many people know that expiry dates are relative to film storage etc, but once a film is within 3-4 months of expiry date you really need to sell it fast....And regardless of what people say they will do, you can't rely on what they say.

Some films will sell - say if you manage to secure some stock of 220 then you will sell some - but how many? Perhaps you could order film based on a non-refundable deposit? Also as you are planning to stock/sell Ilford film have you spoken to CRK about them importing Ultra Large Format film when Ilford maufacture their ULF format/oddball format films each year. I know it's too late for this year, but might be worth considering for next year. You may not sell much 16x 20 sheet film, but there are many 1/4 plate, 1/2 plate, 5x7 cameras out there (you get the idea) that people would buy film for if they could get it easily - even if they have to pre-pay for it, and wait 3 months for delivery....

As for freight I'm sure you can find a freight broker who can arrange a decent freight rate for you. I've worked in distribution for the last 8 years, and we used to use a freight broker who secured us very good rates. Shipping batteries, chemicals etc happens every day - they can advise you of any special requirements etc (batteries need a sticker on the box, and some items need to be shipped by road freight. From memory if batteries are packed in individual packages in such a way that they cant touch each other and short themselves out then they can ship via air mail).

One last thought - don't forget the Photographic Trader for advertising - their rates are very cheap, and the people who buy it are those that are interested in older cameras and processes. Also are you setting up a web page to sell your stock? APUG and Ebay are good, but if you set up a web page then you willbe amazed how easily people will find you via search engines..

If I can be of any help send me a PM - I'd be glad to help

Hi Andrew, thanks for your reply.

Yes, it is going to be a standalone website www.analogphoto.com.au - It is being constructed as we type.

I am not sure how much people will buy so I will keep moderate quantities of things, bulk of things which i know are great sellers.

CR Kennedy have not been very helpful. I am going to contact their Sydney office tomorrow and see what they can do. I'd definitely be keen to offer ULF if they allow it. If not i have other options.

Shipping is a small concern which I have addressed.

My biggest concern is understanding what people want thus, this thread is here.

When I am back at my proper computer I will make sure I have addressed all the points you have made

Ak

Also, take a look at the excel spreadsheet that I posted earlier. Ilford will be a key product line and I am committed to selling their products.

If you can procure Ilford Delta 400 in 4x5" sheet film, you'll be inundated from the entire world!

I would love that film to be available, so would the rest of the world.

Mick.

Mick Fagan said:

If you can procure Ilford Delta 400 in 4x5" sheet film, you'll be inundated from the entire world!

I would love that film to be available, so would the rest of the world.

Mick.

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Mick,

Maybe i'll just throw my entire start up capital at Ilford for them to make it for me

I have done sillier things...


AK

I apology if maybe someone asked the same but:

Would you make a shipping to Europe, Balcan, and what would be the price, days of transport etc..?