Your proccess for developing 4x5 in dip & dunk tanks at home

Hi all, I was wondering how (if any) you proccess your 4x5 B&W film via steel holders and the good old Kodak rubber tanks.
Why I ask you say?
just because.
I enjoy trying all sorts of differant styles of developing and recently aquired a set of frames and tanks w/lids.
I am just unsure as to how to go about it. I know the tech sheets for most films give you a rough explanation ot what to do.
But I thought I would check with you folks to see if you have any routines you follow, how you "agitate" with frames and I guess any other info you would care to offer.

Thanks all!

Doug W.

I often work this way, though I also use a Nikor tank and sometimes trays. Deep tanks are very convenient for processing in quantity or to have at the ready for one or two sheets.

Agitation is simple. Lift the hangers out of the tank and tilt 45-degrees to drain before putting them back in, and then the next time tilt in the opposite direction. There is a good set of illustrations in Ansel Adams' _The Negative_.

I keep a tank full of Acufine, which I replenish, and a tank of TF-4. I have some empty tanks for a plain water rinse, for one-session or one-shot developers, to use as a dry tank for holding loaded hangers before development, or as a wash tank. For convenience, you'll want at least five tanks.

You can also develop rollfilm on spirals in deep tanks by using a cage or lifter rods, and you can easily develop by inspection.

ditto the above. the only way i have ever processed sheet film.

I do all of my 4x5 in yankee tanks with kodak hangers. With most films i have no problems but with EFKE 25 i'll get surge marks from the holes in the hangers in areas of open sky. Don't lift or drop your hangers in too quickly and you should be okay. I always agitate at 1 minute intervals. Office Depot sells clear organizer cubes of nearly the same size which are good for wash tanks or storing loaded holders. Don't use them in front of your glowing darkroom timer though.
I always shake wet hangers off then throw them in the oven to dry them off

All I would add to the above is that there's a certain brand of frozen cream puffs (sold at Sam's club) which come in square plastic bucket that's ideal for dip and dunk work. It's flat bottomed, square, has a sealable top, is the perfect size to hold hangers (up to twelve). Only downside is you gotta make the Waltons richer to get 'em. Every time I sneak in to buy one I think of St. Augustine:
"Dear lord, make me good ...but not yet."

I use the Yankee tanks, about 2000ml, and would float lids on the tanks, and when needed, would stick them in the fridge to get the temps down. I also had a window a/c unit in my bathroom and would keep it at around 70 deg's when needed. The tanks held temperature pretty good this way when their out on a counter, but getting them to temp was a longer process, and adjustments in temperature take a little longer to record. Once the mass of solution is at your temperature it seems to keep pretty good, but depending on the room temperture, you will find a + or - drift, especially in longer developing sessions, when say doing sheets at different N+, N- times. When I started trying minimal agitation routines, times get up in the 30+ minute range and that is a whole nuther ballgame. You can use a water bath with ice to keep your temps once down, but the problem is, you need light to read a thermometer to make adjustments. The best solution is a rather large mass of bath water cooling the tanks. Also, I found that leaving the tanks with solution between sessions on a tile floor kept them cooler, even here in S. Florida. Overall i enjoy sitting in the dark moving my holders, maybe even more then using daylight tanks, but temp controll is what it's all about. Well beside you know...

Btw, I would just swing the holders in the tanks and never lift them out. Never ever a problem.

Plenty of testimony here in favor of these tanks. I used them for years (the old Kodak hard rubber kind) with SS hangers. At one point, though, I started getting mottling in uniform sky images, using Tri-x and HC110B (agitation as described above, alternating 45 degree angle drain, once each way every minute after the first minute of slow steady alternating) in the mid 80's. I couldn't afford to lose images from shooting trips, so I started to use open trays, continuous agitation, and never experience the mottling again. I am now working on a tube system. I would just say, keep an eye on this one issue.

For what it is worth, I have used stainless steel hangers for developing sheet film for more than fifty years, have never gotten "surge marks" motteling or any thing other than perfect skies/negs if I did my part right. If you are getting uneven development you are not doing it correctly! Just that simple! I have done 4x5 through 8x10 color transparancy's, Color negatives and black and white. As I say I have never had the problems that others describe on this list. Agitation or the lack of agitation in the first minute or so is what causes uneveness. Too vigerous and the chemicals flood through the hanger holes and streak the sky area. left standing too long can also cause streaking. Adams way works, Kodaks way works, I use a combination of the two with no problems.
Tray developing to me is asking for trouble, I know lots of folks do it, and do it well, but I have ruined more large negatives in trays than any other way.
For years I used the old hard rubber and Yankee tanks, they worked great.
Today I am all Stainless steel tanks and love them. Temperature changes can occur with them very rapidly so pay attention when using them. I had nothing but problems with Jobo and Bessler tube processors. The hangers and tanks work for me. If they don't work for you, it's not the tanks and hangers fault!!!!

Charlie...............

I have had my best luck with hangers. I made my own tanks out of clear acrylic so I could watch them develop with my night vision goggles. I use pyrocat with semistand agitation.

Hey all, just wanted to say thanks for all the helpful hints offered, they are very appreciated. just one more question, when it is time for agitation, do you pull the frames out several times to equal the usual 10 seconds of agitation or just twice, one tilt to the left, dunk and one tilt to the right?

I know many good photographers that use the dip and dunk tank method. Not that I'm one of them, but I do too. The only time I ever got surge marks was when I put to many hangers in. I was in a rush and had LOTS of film to develop.

i began doing large format photography by working in the darkroom for a portrait photographer in providence ri. she was a olde tyme traditionalist who shot 5x7 film ( split and full negative ). for about a year i spent my days and afternoons processing all of her film and making all of her prints. we used tankfulls of dk50 -water-rapid fix (w/o hardener because we were retouching negative with lead ). i would process handfulls of film in hangers - it was quick, easy and worked great!

when i left the studio then i bought small stainless steel tanks and clear tuperware containers and filled them with chemicals and used them in my own lab. this worked really well for a number of years, until i needed more hangers. i only bought used ones, and since it had been years, and i didn't have trouble with the 40 or 50 that i already had, i figured i wouldn't have any trouble with any others that i bought on the used market --- boy was i wrong! i had a few bad ones in the bunch and i was never able to figure out which ones they were. they marked my film ( lines and circles ) on film that i was processing for a job. first trouble i had in 10 + years

i didn't have a great resource like apug back then to troubleshoot my problem, and i didn't know of any other photographers in the area who were doing this sort of processing ... frustrated i got rid of all my hangers, and started processing my film in small trays. it has been 10+ years again, and i haven't had any trouble <knock wood>. i can process just about the same amount of film that way doing the sheet-film-shuffle ( i've done up to 16 sheets of 4x5 or 5x7 sheets at once ... ).

i miss using deep tanks! it was less of a hassle that is for sure.

one word of advice, if you get used hangers, make sure you keep track of which film was in which hangers, so if you end up with a real dud (or two), you can chuck it fast before it marks up your film!

good luck!
john

Do any of you use a compensating timer to keep an eye on changing temps? Pat

You shouldn't have to worry about temperature changes, since you've got almost 2 litres of liquid in there, and it should remain at an almost constant temperature for 10-15 minutes, as long as the ambient temperature isn't *too* different.

Regarding uneven sky or surge marks, you may not be agitating agressively enough - I've found that if I'm very 'calm' when agitating, I get surge marks and general unevenness (this applies with 645 in tanks as well). You want good, random motion of the liquid in the tank. Moving slowly does not move the developer around enough, and you may end up getting the aforementioned unevenness.

With the deep tanks, I agitate 10-15 seconds every minute - this is about 8-10 lift/tilt/replace motions. Yes, that fast. For medium format, 5 seconds every 30 seconds with a good twist/rotate motion.

No surge marks, no mottling. Being that agressive with agitation may mean you might have to shorten your dev times slightly to compensate for the amount of fresh developer in contact with the film.

Works for me. And, as with all things, YMMV.