Yet another Sistan question

xkaes · Jun 23, 2006

I've been using Agfa Sistan, and per the information in Tim Rudman's excellent book -- The Photographer's Toning Book -- I've been using it completely. There is nothing on the Agfa bottle that specifies how many prints you can get out of the stuff, and I see no reason to doubt Tim's information. His book is exhaustive.

However, I'm getting a purple sediment in the Sistan working solution. I'm wondering if I should filter this stuff out, or just agitate it until it is mixed back in. Any thoughts?

I would not want to remove any active ingredient in the Sistan, but I don't want to have crud on my prints either. You don't wash prints after using Sistan -- that's according to Tim (once again there is nothing on the Sustan bottle about that).

menglert · Jun 23, 2006

This is a bit of a side question in addition... Hope you don't mind...

Does anyone know if Sistan is still being made? Also, does anyone know where to buy Sistan or Fuji AG guard online?

Thanks,
Martin

xkaes · Jun 23, 2006

menglert said:
This is a bit of a side question in addition... Hope you don't mind...

Does anyone know if Sistan is still being made? Also, does anyone know where to buy Sistan or Fuji AG guard online?

Thanks,
Martin

Sistan is no longer available. Agfa is dead.

Oren Grad · Jun 23, 2006

menglert said:
This is a bit of a side question in addition... Hope you don't mind...

Does anyone know if Sistan is still being made? Also, does anyone know where to buy Sistan or Fuji AG guard online?

Thanks,
Martin

In response to my email query, Ingolf Marzenski of A&O Imaging - the company that picked up the Agfa chemical line - wrote to me back in January that A&O will continue the production of Sistan. However, I haven't yet seen any new stock for sale.

Philippe-Georges · Jun 23, 2006

In the BENELUX, Elka colour (contact : valeer.bervoets@elka.be) is the new agent/distributor for the new AGFA (chemicals only) products, Sistan, Viradon, Agefix, Rodinal, Neutol (NE and plus), C-41, RA4,... are in production again by A&O!
Just look (and wait) for a proper distribution in you country...

Philippe

Petzi · Jun 23, 2006

Agfa Sistan is available in any quantity from the factory.

xkaes · Jun 23, 2006

Try to obtain it from any supplier in the USA and they will laugh at you.

Petzi · Jun 23, 2006

Then inform any supplier in the USA about the US distributor for this stuff, or have them get it from the factory. They are plain uninformed if they laugh at you. You can get Sistan (and all other Agfa chemicals) by the pallet if you want to.

psvensson · Jun 23, 2006

xkaes said:
I've been using Agfa Sistan, and per the information in Tim Rudman's excellent book -- The Photographer's Toning Book -- I've been using it completely. There is nothing on the Agfa bottle that specifies how many prints you can get out of the stuff, and I see no reason to doubt Tim's information. His book is exhaustive.

However, I'm getting a purple sediment in the Sistan working solution. I'm wondering if I should filter this stuff out, or just agitate it until it is mixed back in. Any thoughts?

I would not want to remove any active ingredient in the Sistan, but I don't want to have crud on my prints either. You don't wash prints after using Sistan -- that's according to Tim (once again there is nothing on the Sustan bottle about that).

Agfa's old instructions specified a number of prints that could go through the working solution (that's probably where Rudman gets his figures from), but also said it could be used "to the last drop." A bit confusing. I don't think the active ingredient gets used up, but the Sistan probably gets contaminated, so switching it out after a while is a good idea.

Agfa's instructions also specified that the Sistan should not be washed out.

I've never gotten a sediment in the working solution. If I did, I would certainly dump it, since whatever's in the Sistan stays in the print.

BTW, I use Sistan half strength, since I get drops forming on the emulsion even after careful squeegeeing. Those drops bleach the image irreversibly.

Travis Nunn · Jun 23, 2006

Petzi said:
Then inform any supplier in the USA about the US distributor for this stuff, or have them get it from the factory. They are plain uninformed if they laugh at you. You can get Sistan (and all other Agfa chemicals) by the pallet if you want to.

That's great if you're in Europe but none of the big shops in the US carry it (as far as I can tell anyway). B&H has shown it out of stock for months, Freestyle doesn't carry it, Adorama doesn't carry it. I'm sure they are aware of the US distributor.

blansky · Jun 23, 2006

Sistan for me was always kind of like religion.

You can't see it. You can't prove it. You just hope it works.

An old joke:

Here's the 100 stealth bombers you order Mr. President (Reagan). That'll be 100 billions dollars you owe me.

Reagan says, "GREAT". But then looking around. "I don't see any bombers."

Well sir, that's cause they're stealth bombers.

Michael

psvensson · Jun 23, 2006

psvensson said:
BTW, I use Sistan half strength, since I get drops forming on the emulsion even after careful squeegeeing. Those drops bleach the image irreversibly.

BTW, this is the Old Sistan I'm referring to. Instructions for New Sistan (the last version made by Agfa) recommended twice as much concentrate for the working solution, so it's probably half strength. I have a bottle of that but haven't tried it.

David A. Goldfarb · Jun 23, 2006

I use it until I see gunk floating in it, and then I toss it and mix a new batch. I use it for B&W film and RC prints.

I'm working on a 1 litre bottle I bought when Agfa was in the process of discontinuing it, and it should last until distribution for A&O is sorted out in the US, A&O goes bankrupt and sells off its operation, and distribution is sorted out for the company that buys A&O.

Petzi · Jun 23, 2006

OK, hereby I offer to send any number of bottles of Sistan to anybody in the world, especially members of APUG.

Hans Borjes · Jun 24, 2006

If you want to order online try
Nordfoto
Monochrom

If they run out of stock call the distribution team +4921315236169

If they can't send you the amount you need call the factory directly and tell them: +49704291311

The more people are calling A&O and even the factory directly, the sooner we will find a working distribution chain. I've been told by Mr. Merzinski +4921315236177 that A&O has recognised that many dealers are not aware of the fact that the Agfa chemistry is still being produced and they intend to run an information campaign.

The best thing to do if you want to see this stuff in the portfolio of your favourite dealer is certainly to have a telephone call.

RalphLambrecht · Jun 24, 2006

It's made again. I know of only one online place where you can get it. They sell the 500ml bottles for 9.10 Euros.

http://www.phototec.de/catalog/adva...on=1&keywords=sistan&categories_id=&x=39&y=13

Fotohuis · Jun 24, 2006

It's a mess, the distribution of A&O outside Germany.
Even benelux can not be supported. The Belgium company Elka was not even interested for a delivery to us.

Again and again we contacted the A&O guys/girls in Neuss. All kind of promisess but no results.
We have run through our supply of Rodinal in the mean time. Around 600 bottles bought in October 2005 when Agfa Photo was going down. 60 or so should be normal for a year

As alternative we could get Fomadon R09 from Foma. They had a response within one week. Now our dilemma: R09 1000km from Hradec Kralove or wait for Rodinal less 100 km away from Neuss. For us A&O: s*u*c*k #%&%#.

RalphLambrecht · Jun 24, 2006

Travis

What stops you from odering it in Europe online? I buy from US online services, if I can't get it here.

Travis Nunn · Jun 24, 2006

Ralph,

I still have 2 bottles left which, like David, is enough to last me until the distribution issues are sorted out. I don't need to order any right now. It was stated earlier that it should be readily available in the US since it apparently is Europe and I was merely stating that it is not readily available here in the States.

Ryuji · Jun 25, 2006

xkaes said:
There is nothing on the Agfa bottle that specifies how many prints you can get out of the stuff, and I see no reason to doubt Tim's information. His book is exhaustive.

I don't know what Tim says, but the active agent of Sistan is completely water soluble and it's carried out from the bath at practically the same rate as the fluid carryover.

I'm getting a purple sediment in the Sistan working solution. I'm wondering if I should filter this stuff out, or just agitate it until it is mixed back in. Any thoughts?

I'm not aware of common causes to this. However, I know moulds like to grow in or around dilute thiocyanate solution (dilute Sistan) and I recommend not to keep dilute Sistan solution for a long time. (I used to do it and realized the mould growth!)

I would not want to remove any active ingredient in the Sistan, but I don't want to have crud on my prints either. You don't wash prints after using Sistan -- that's according to Tim (once again there is nothing on the Sustan bottle about that).

As I said thiocyanate is completely water soluble, and it's not particularly adsorbed on metallic silver surface, so if you wash the print, the effect is gone. (This is a weakness of Sistan treatment.)

RalphLambrecht · Jun 25, 2006

Travis

That's good. I would consider the current problems with the world-wide distribution channels as growing pains. They should go away with time and continuing orders.

Yet another Sistan question

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