Yet another fixer question!

[Melvin J Bramley]

A while ago I posted a question about an unidentified, damaged label, Ilford Fixer I acquired which I am almost certain is Ilford RT fixer.
The 4 litre container was old when It came into my hands, I have since split it into 1 litre brown bottles to squeeze more life out of it.
When developing prints I check it with hypo check and with film it clears within 30 seconds, a little longer with Delta film.
The stuff does not want to die!
My first 1 ltr bottle mixed 4:1 performs just as well as it did 2 months ago or more.
Could it be that RT2000 fixer is designed to work at higher temperature is contributing to it's longevity?

 

[DeletedAcct1]

A while ago I posted a question about an unidentified, damaged label, Ilford Fixer I acquired which I am almost certain is Ilford RT fixer.
The 4 litre container was old when It came into my hands, I have since split it into 1 litre brown bottles to squeeze more life out of it.
When developing prints I check it with hypo check and with film it clears within 30 seconds, a little longer with Delta film.
The stuff does not want to die!
My first 1 ltr bottle mixed 4:1 performs just as well as it did 2 months ago or more.
Could it be that RT2000 fixer is designed to work at higher temperature is contributing to it's longevity?

Apart from the fixing speed, is the concentrate clear or cloudy?
How's the fixer smell?

 

[koraks]

Could it be that RT2000 fixer is designed to work at higher temperature is contributing to it's longevity?

Maybe; it's possible it has some more sulfite in it. It might be possible to gain some insight from the MSDS, although that is generally inconclusive.

 

[lamerko]

I bought 3 bottles of Ilford Rapid Fixer a year ago. I don't know what happened to it - some small crystals broke out in the concentrate, but it is clear. When I make a solution it turns completely black in color in just a day or two. I'm just blown away...

 

[DeletedAcct1]

I bought 3 bottles of Ilford Rapid Fixer a year ago. I don't know what happened to it - some small crystals broke out in the concentrate, but it is clear. When I make a solution it turns completely black in color in just a day or two. I'm just blown away...

toss them, they're shot.

 

[pentaxuser]

The 4 litre container was old when It came into my hands,
When developing prints I check it with hypo check and with film it clears within 30 seconds, a little longer with Delta film.
The stuff does not want to die!
My first 1 ltr bottle mixed 4:1 performs just as well as it did 2 months ago or more.
Could it be that RT2000 fixer is designed to work at higher temperature is contributing to it's longevity?

Was the container unopened when you got it such that from opening to using again only 2 months have elapsed?

If so is a life of 2 months with no deterioration a surprise?

I got 2 x1 litre unopened containers that were probably more than 4 years old and while there were some small black crystals to be filtered out which I did with a coffee filter, I like you, Melvin, found it perfectly usable

pentaxuser

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

Was the container unopened when you got it such that from opening to using again only 2 months have elapsed?

If so is a life of 2 months with no deterioration a surprise?

I got 2 x1 litre unopened containers that were probably more than 4 years old and while there were some small black crystals to be filtered out which I did with a coffee filter, I like you, Melvin, found it perfectly usable

pentaxuser

The fixer was unopened when it came to me with a lot of paper and chemistry.
When I split it into 1 ltr bottles there were a few crystals in the bottom of the container other than that it is clear.
I mixed it 1:4 for a working solution , the solution has processed two rolls of 35mm and about ten rolls of 120 plus about twenty 8x10 prints .
I had expected a deterioration at this point!
This fixer 'seems' to be longer lasting than regular MG fixer.

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

Maybe; it's possible it has some more sulfite in it. It might be possible to gain some insight from the MSDS, although that is generally inconclusive.

I cannot find much information on line about this product though it seems to be still available.

 

[DeletedAcct1]

The fixer was unopened when it came to me with a lot of paper and chemistry.
When I split it into 1 ltr bottles there were a few crystals in the bottom of the container other than that it is clear.
I mixed it 1:4 for a working solution , the solution has processed two rolls of 35mm and about ten rolls of 120 plus about twenty 8x10 prints .
I had expected a deterioration at this point!
This fixer 'seems' to be longer lasting than regular MG fixer.

No need to split anything, a fixer doesn't spoil like a developer.
You didn't answer my question though.
Is the diluited fixer cloudy?
How's the smell?

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

No need to split anything, a fixer doesn't spoil like a developer.
You didn't answer my question though.
Is the diluited fixer cloudy?
How's the smell?

No it is not.
No smell, that said I have a poor perception of odour!
That fixer does not spoil is both new, to me, and interesting, thanks.

 

[mshchem]

You will know it when fixer that's been effected by oxygen. Terrible smell of rotten eggs. Keep the concentrate in full bottles, should last a long time.

It may have a bit more sulfite.

 

[MattKing]

As I understand it, oxygen isn't the problem. The chemists can correct me if I have misunderstood.
Again as I understand it, all fixer - and in particular acidic rapid fixers - is inherently unstable. At some point all rapid fixers will begin to sulfur out. And once it does, filtration doesn't solve the problem, because the sulfur can embed itself into emulsion, even when it is too small to be caught by the filter.
Over the years it has become clear to me that the time it takes rapid fixers to deteriorate is relatively inconsistent and unpredictable, although more acidic fixers tend to be worse.
I've had bottles of fixer remain in good shape for years longer than expected. And I've had them start to deteriorate moderately quickly - much closer to when the manufactures say they should.

 

[mshchem]

I have no idea what the exact mechanism is, however I have Fuji universal fixer that's been stored for nearly 5 years, I received a 5 gallon cubitainer (not what I ordered!) from Unique Photo. This stuff is very concentrated, heavy, I split it up into full glass gallon bottles, and some smaller bottles.
It's crystal clear good as new.

In the past I've had problems with partially full bottles. Kodak Rapid fix was the main culprit (no science here just an observation)

 

[koraks]

As I understand it, oxygen isn't the problem. The chemists can correct me if I have misunderstood.

Does stop and fixer oxidize like developer?

I was just replacing my paper fixer and stop bath and was wondering: is the exhaustion of the fixer only due to silver saturation or does it go bad just sitting in the bottle or tray? And then I started wondering about the stop bath also. It's not a big deal, just wondering.

www.photrio.com

Sort of. Indirectly, oxygen is the problem. Directly, it's the pH that's the problem. So keeping oxygen out really does help.
Parting out a big jar so that you don't have a layer of air on top of it, that's refreshed every time you take a little fixer out, really does help.

Full bottles that are not permeable to oxygen and filled so that there's no air on top store better. Factory-sealed fixer can last enormously long even if it's acidic fixer - but there certainly are differences between products and perhaps even batches.

At some point all rapid fixers will begin to sulfur out. And once it does, filtration doesn't solve the problem, because the sulfur can embed itself into emulsion, even when it is too small to be caught by the filter.

I've used sulfured out fixer numerous times using filtration as a means to 'clean it up'. Use a coarse filter first for the big bits, then a fine filter (e.g. cloth) for the small particles. You can end up with a virtually clear concentrate, which then can be diluted for use. Of course, once the sulfuring out has started, it'll keep going (and fast!), so it's best to use up the product at that point. Evidently, use it on non-critical work only. Sulfite may be added and pH may be adjusted upwards after filtration to try and re-balance the fixer - but ask yourself if it's worth the effort.

That fixer does not spoil is both new, to me, and interesting

Sadly, it's also very incorrect.

 

[DeletedAcct1]

I have no idea what the exact mechanism is, however I have Fuji universal fixer that's been stored for nearly 5 years, I received a 5 gallon cubitainer (not what I ordered!) from Unique Photo. This stuff is very concentrated, heavy, I split it up into full glass gallon bottles, and some smaller bottles.
It's crystal clear good as new.

In the past I've had problems with partially full bottles. Kodak Rapid fix was the main culprit (no science here just an observation)

The fixer can be cristal clear when concentrated, but it turns cloudy when diluited.

 

[pentaxuser]

Melvin what you found seems to be uncannily like what I found and said in my reply so I am puzzled as to why others feel the thread continuing serves any purpose

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

I am puzzled as to why others feel the thread continuing serves any purpose

Human life is generally a repetition of things that have been said, felt and done by millions before us. Yet, we linger. Well, most of us, in any case.

 

[DeletedAcct1]

Melvin what you found seems to be uncannily like what I found and said in my reply so I am puzzled as to why others feel the thread continuing serves any purpose

pentaxuser

because it is of help for others that will read this topic in the future

 

[mshchem]

The fixer can be cristal clear when concentrated, but it turns cloudy when diluited.

Thiosulfate is used to remove excess chlorine from swimming pools. If you are forming a sulfate that could be cloudy???

I use a reverse osmosis purifier for my solutions.

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

Does stop and fixer oxidize like developer?

I was just replacing my paper fixer and stop bath and was wondering: is the exhaustion of the fixer only due to silver saturation or does it go bad just sitting in the bottle or tray? And then I started wondering about the stop bath also. It's not a big deal, just wondering.

www.photrio.com

Sort of. Indirectly, oxygen is the problem. Directly, it's the pH that's the problem. So keeping oxygen out really does help.
Parting out a big jar so that you don't have a layer of air on top of it, that's refreshed every time you take a little fixer out, really does help.

Full bottles that are not permeable to oxygen and filled so that there's no air on top store better. Factory-sealed fixer can last enormously long even if it's acidic fixer - but there certainly are differences between products and perhaps even batches.


I've used sulfured out fixer numerous times using filtration as a means to 'clean it up'. Use a coarse filter first for the big bits, then a fine filter (e.g. cloth) for the small particles. You can end up with a virtually clear concentrate, which then can be diluted for use. Of course, once the sulfuring out has started, it'll keep going (and fast!), so it's best to use up the product at that point. Evidently, use it on non-critical work only. Sulfite may be added and pH may be adjusted upwards after filtration to try and re-balance the fixer - but ask yourself if it's worth the effort.



Sadly, it's also very incorrect.

OK , my fixer stays in the 1 ltr brown bottles, Thanks

 

[DeletedAcct1]

Thiosulfate is used to remove excess chlorine from swimming pools. If you are forming a sulfate that could be cloudy???

I use a reverse osmosis purifier for my solutions.

It happened to me once, with an opened bottle of Ilford Rapid fixer. The concentrate had some growing crystals in it but it was clear, and as soon as I diluited (with distilled water) it the solution turned cloudy. No rotten smell. I tossed the fixer bottle.