Yashicamat 124 - Is this lens flare? Anything I can do?

trythis · Mar 4, 2015

Notice the light coming through the window seems to create a fog of light in front of the background column and stuff. Is that lens flare or is it just bad lens haze? I have read about flocking the insides of these cameras and wonder if that would help or if it is a lens problem cause by coating damage. I have cleaned the front and back of both front and rear elements and the glass looks glossy on the front the flashlight test shows a bit of haze and some spots from the oil that sat on the glass for so long are visible when holding the element up to the light by itself.

Everything on the camera is in good shape and photos without strong light look great.

zanxion72 · Mar 4, 2015

Unfortunately Yashinons are very prone to flare. The coatings of these lenses cannot do much about that. All one could do is use a hood and avoid such intense light sources in their frames.
My Yashica Mat-124G has perfectly clean optics and in cases like this it flares quite a bit. And that flare has that hazy look.

Roger Cole · Mar 4, 2015

It's not so much the lens as the inside of the rather poorly flocked camera. You can flock the camera much better than a stock camera. You can always use a hood (a plastic bayonet fitting hood is a few bucks off eBay). And you can use it creatively, intentionally or accidentally:

The Light of Music by Roger Cole, on Flickrkrr

Ian Grant · Mar 4, 2015

I agree with Roger, it's not particularly the lens it's the internal paintwork. I've noticed that some matt black paint seems to get lighter with time & aging I don't have my Yashicamat here (it's in Turkey) to check it. I have had some flare with mine once or twice on over-cast days when the sky is beginning to brighten up in front of me.

There's a huge exposure difference in the OP's image between the interior scene and the light coming through the window and that's causing internal reflections inside the camera this will amplify any flare from the lens itself.

In general I don't find the Yashinon lens itself prone to flare, I keep a Plastic lens hood on the taking lens and use the camera in very bright daylight often shooting almost into the sun with no issues. It's the relationship between the overall exposure and the excessive brightness of the light coming through the window, or in my case a bright sky while I was in a shaded area (moat of Rhodos around the city wall).

With many cameras I restore I usually repaint the interiors and the matt black paint I use is very noticeably darker and less reflective than the original paint. That must make a very significant difference.

Ian

snapguy · Mar 4, 2015

Flare alert

In the 1970s I sold tens of thousands of dollars worth of color photographs to newspapers and magazines around the world, taken with a Yashicamat with a Yashinon lens. In those days a lot of publications in Australia, Japan and in Germany and other parts of Europe would spurn 35mm slides for color and buy 120-size transparancies instead. If the camera was prone to flare I would have dumped the darn thing and bought something else, but I did not. I still have it. Last year I began selling some of the same photos, blown up large, in art galleries. No lens flare. Urban myth. In the 1960s I sold photos to magazines and newspapers all over the world taken with a Rolleiflex. No lens flare there, either. I had a Leica 3f for a while with a Sonnar 50mm f2 lens. Now THERE was flare.

snapguy · Mar 4, 2015

typo

Sorry for the typo. I meant Summar 50mm f2 lens. A real Coke bottle bottom in my experience.

Roger Cole · Mar 4, 2015

It's not an urban myth, it just doesn't happen that often, depending on the subject and light. See both examples above. The vast majority of my shots show no such flare either, with enough SBR into the light you can get it. It's also possible, as Ian says, that the black paint fades and becomes less dark with time so cameras that didn't use to exhibit this might by now.

tokam · Mar 4, 2015

My Yashicamat 124G has a similar problem and I can see that it is caused by fogging of the rear element of the taking lens.

I had the camera serviced just over 6 years ago including clean lenses. The problem reoccurred within 4 years. Internet folklore says that it is out gassing of
lubricants from the shutter. It is very obvious when the shutter is locked on B and attempting to view through the taking lens from the rear.

I will be putting the camera in for the lens to be cleaned again fairly soon but I don't know if I'll keep it much longer after it is cleaned. I'll see what the
camera tech guy has to say about it.

Chrismat · Mar 4, 2015

Flocking the inside of a Yashicamat makes a difference. My first Yashica was a Yashica 24 that I purchased a few years ago, and I was getting flare similar to your example even when I was using a lens shade. Then I saw this online: http://www.usedcameradb.com/blog/2010/02/flocking-a-yashica-mat-124/, and it made a major difference.

Ian Grant · Mar 4, 2015

In the 7 or 8 years I've had my Yashicamat flare has only been an issue with one image I've printed, I think one frame taken at the same time/place probably exhibts it as well.

Paints do age, some considerably more than others, many of us can remember the paints used on cars (automobiles) going dull and chalky. I never heard anyone mentioning needing to repaint/flock the inside of Yashicamats until more recent years and as Snapguy says people were getting excellent results with them. So I do wonder if the paint's faded with time.

Ian

trythis · Mar 4, 2015

I should have mentioned that I have and always use a lens hood. Another example:

And an outdoor shot without flare, due to overcast:

zanxion72 · Mar 4, 2015

Yashinon is a tessar design lens. The tessar design has always been prone to flares and this is why it required good coatings to minimize it. I have the same issue with my 124G. One cannot eliminate it, but learn to live and create with it.

Ian Grant · Mar 4, 2015

trythis said:
I should have mentioned that I have and always use a lens hood. Another example:

And an outdoor shot without flare, due to overcast:

I think your lens has issues, you shouldn't get any flare in those images and that looks like haze of something in the lens. Whether it can be cleaned successfully is another issue it may cost more than just replacing the camera.

Ian

Ian Grant · Mar 4, 2015

zanxion72 said:
Yashinon is a tessar design lens. The tessar design has always been prone to flares and this is why it required good coatings to minimize it. I have the same issue with my 124G. One cannot eliminate it, but learn to live and create with it.

Actually the The Tessar design isn't particularly prone to flare, I have quite a few and use many of them, a few about half are coated, the Opton Tessar on my Rolleiflex and the Yashinon aren't included in the photo.

I use a CZJ 150mm f4.5 T (coated) Tessar or a 150mm f5.6 Xenar quite regularly alongside my Yashicamat and have never had them flare. The un-coated Tessars tend to be less contrasty but don't flare like the OP's lens.

Ian

gone · Mar 4, 2015

It's flare. Put a hood on it, make sure the inside of the lens is clean, and make sure there are no reflective surfaces inside the film chamber/ pressure plate or back. And don't shoot into the sun unless you have to :}

BTW, a clean Leica Summar is one of the sharpest lenses ever made (by f4, see 2nd shot. f2 is for emergencies only :}. That's another urban myth. Please see some pics from mine below after John at Focal Point cleaned the fungus out of it. Best 50mm lens Leica ever made, w/ 3D quality and classic Leica signature. It was uncoated of course, and never flared after it was cleaned. Before that, it was a flare machine.

railwayman3 · Mar 4, 2015

Ian Grant said:
I think your lens has issues, you shouldn't get any flare in those images and that looks like haze of something in the lens. Whether it can be cleaned successfully is another issue it may cost more than just replacing the camera.

Ian

TBH, as a happy 124G user, I have to agree with Ian that there seems to be some kind of haze in your shots....it's the sort of effect I get looking through my spectacles when the lenses are greasy and need a proper clean !

I can't recall any issues with my 124G in general use, and in similar conditions. Bright contrasts and lights can cause internal reflections and flare, as with most lenses, but that's not quite the same haze that I seem to see here ?

E. von Hoegh · Mar 4, 2015

snapguy said:
Sorry for the typo. I meant Summar 50mm f2 lens. A real Coke bottle bottom in my experience.

Actually a Summar can be a decent lens, but you have to use the lens shade. Six uncoated internal surfaces will bounce a lot of light around.

As for the Op's Yashica, that looks like it could be haze in the lens. I used a square hood from a Rollei on my 124G and never had any problems.

Ian Grant · Mar 4, 2015

momus said:
It's flare. Put a hood on it, make sure the inside of the lens is clean, and make sure there are no reflective surfaces inside the film chamber/ pressure plate or back. And don't shoot into the sun unless you have to :}

BTW, a clean Leica Summar is one of the sharpest lenses ever made (by f4, see 2nd shot. f2 is for emergencies only :}. That's another urban myth. Please see some pics from mine below after John at Focal Point cleaned the fungus out of it. Best 50mm lens Leica ever made, w/ 3D quality and classic Leica signature. It was uncoated of course, and never flared after it was cleaned. Before that, it was a flare machine.

The issue with Summars and 30's 135mm/150mm Tessars, and Novars is the new Schott optical glasses used, some are very soft and prone to scratch easily, however even clean scratch free lenses seem to suffer from atmospheric attack and become hazy. I have a very clean looking Novar on an Ikonta that's unusable due to atmospheric attack, I've another similar that I bought for its shutter, I've seen 30's Tessars similarly attacked as well as Summars.

Ian

Ian Grant · Mar 4, 2015

railwayman3 said:
TBH, as a happy 124G user, I have to agree with Ian that there seems to be some kind of haze in your shots....it's the sort of effect I get looking through my spectacles when the lenses are greasy and need a proper clean !

I can't recall any issues with my 124G in general use, and in similar conditions. Bright contrasts and lights can cause internal reflections and flare, as with most lenses, but that's not quite the same haze that I seem to see here ?

E. von Hoegh said:
Actually a Summar can be a decent lens, but you have to use the lens shade. Six uncoated internal surfaces will bounce a lot of light around.

As for the Op's Yashica, that looks like it could be haze in the lens. I used a square hood from a Rollei on my 124G and never had any problems.

I had a great flare free Tamron SP 17mm lens, after an unfortunate accident where I cartwheeled into a canal cameras and all I sent it to have new aperture blades fitted the'd rusted the only damage, when it came back from Johnsons Photopia (the UK Importer & Service center) it flared badly and was unusable. It takes very little to turn a great lens into junk.

Those inner surfaces are crucial and must be scrupulously clean and we've heard of oil spots and slight haze with the OP's lens.

Ian

summicron1 · Mar 4, 2015

a shot in a dark room with a bright light source in the frame like you have there is going to be very difficult to shoot with the best optics in the world.

If it were me, I'd move a bit to the side and get that out of frame -- your image will be a lot nicer.

trythis · Mar 4, 2015

summicron1 said:
a shot in a dark room with a bright light source in the frame like you have there is going to be very difficult to shoot with the best optics in the world.

If it were me, I'd move a bit to the side and get that out of frame -- your image will be a lot nicer.

I get that, but its useless outside if you look at the 2nd group of photos you can see the amazingly bad color fringing and flare. All of my plastic toy camera preform better than this thing where back light is concerned.

Xmas · Mar 4, 2015

The basic TLRs need a baffle plate or flocking some came with a plate from the factory.

piu58 · Mar 5, 2015

The later Cords and Flexes have three baffle plates. The resist to stray light very well.

Xmas · Mar 5, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
I am quite sure the OP's problem is inter-element haze. All the glass needs to come out and be cleaned. Once you have mastered the elusive 60watt table lamp method of inspection, you've reached a big step in lens disassembly and cleaning. Remember. you're turning the camera to such a way as to induce flare so you can see the SURFACE of all the glass, instead of looking through and beyond the glass. An extremely filthy and unusable lens can look clear and pretty when sighting through and beyond. Now, maybe my explanation was more concise. It was very difficult for me as self taught to discover how lens inspection is done. Now it's easy as falling off a log.

The YM lenses can fog but all the OP needs to do is to open the back and frame a scene with a light-source just outside picture if the lens glows it is fog if the interior glows it is interior...

Later YMs have a plate.

trythis · Mar 5, 2015

Xmas said:
The YM lenses can fog but all the OP needs to do is to open the back and frame a scene with a light-source just outside picture if the lens glows it is fog if the interior glows it is interior...

Later YMs have a plate.

I have had this camera apart down to the shutter blades several times. It was very cheap and I have completely stripped the shutter, oiled it just so that the shutter timings are good and the timer works great. I replaced the battery wire to the meter and cleaned and lubed the winding mechanism. I have also repaired the firing mechanism as it was bent out of alignment. Of course during all that, I cleaned the lenses several times. The rear element is cloudy and the coating was damaged from the original shutter oil splatter these are known to suffer from. Baffles are one thing, and as stated later in the thread, I always shoot with a square hood but from all the helpful answers, I now know that I need new lenses or a new camera if the lenses are not available.

I have an email into Mark Hama to find out if he has a replacement lens in the event I send him the camera for reworking.

Thanks!

Yashicamat 124 - Is this lens flare? Anything I can do?

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