Yashica mat copal mxv shutter problem with video

NJguy · Sep 28, 2015

Hi, im new here and trying to fix a problem with a yashica mat EM shutter. Im posting a video of it below and also a video of a working copal mxv for comparision.

the problem with the shutter im having is that every speed i set it at it basically is working as if it were in B mode, meaning as long as I how the shutter button the shutter stays open, be it set at 1 sec or 1/500 the of a second or anything in between. As soon as i release the shutter it closes. There is no sticky gummy issue here, its kind of the opposite. It opens and closes ok, but just not at the designated speed.

in the video its bvious that the upper right portion is not functioning properly but im not that experienced in this so i dont know what is failing. Can anyone tell? Any guidance appreciated.

Here is the video of the malfunctioning shutter, its set at 1 second but you can see it closes as soon as i release it. Had i held the button it would stay open
[video=youtube_share;_UNWRheKUbo]http://youtu.be/_UNWRheKUbo[/video]

and here is a video i took of a functioning copal mxv from another yashica mat (non em). This shutter is a few years newer so you can see slight design changes in a couple spots but basically the same shutter.
http://youtu.be/lLyiCzK2oKs

Ps: ive already sent Mark Hama another yashica mat for a full cla, i dont want to do this with this one, i want to attempt to fix it myself. Thanks.

shutterfinger · Sep 28, 2015

When a shutter does this it usually needs a CLA. can't tell anything from your video other than its broken and don't work correct.

snikulin · Sep 28, 2015

+1 for CLA
Usually it's this white metal ring collected grime and does not rotate freely.

NJguy · Sep 28, 2015

Thanks guys but again, i bought this camera specifically to try to repair myself, i am not interested in paying someone to do it. Im trying to learn. I already have a cla'ed camera. If a human can fix this, im human and i can learn or at least try.

snikulin · Sep 28, 2015

NJguy said:
Thanks guys but again, i bought this camera specifically to try to repair myself, i am not interested in paying someone to do it. Im trying to learn. I already have a cla'ed camera. If a human can fix this, im human and i can learn or at least try.

Go for it!
I did CLA totally myself and I had a lot of fun and the camera works after the process.

From my own experience:

1. Get a decent Swiss-made screwdriver. A $5 screwdriver from Home Depot will ruin your screws.

2. Use ZIPPO fuel AKA Ronsoln (Walgreens) AKA Naphtha for cleaning the parts. !!! NO RUBBING ALCOHOL !!!

3. Don't sweat if 1/500 speed is slow. This means the main spring is old and weakened. Live with it (I do) or get a different shutter (most possibly weak too).

4. Make a picture at the every step of the dis-assembly process. It will help you to reassemble everything back.

John Koehrer · Sep 28, 2015

I've not been into one of these for a hundred years. What you're getting is the B function.
The slow speed escapement at the bottom isn't engaging. If you look for a ring around the lens and hold
it when you release the shutter, you can follow it around to the escapement, The engaging lever
will be at the right end of the escapement in the pic.

Classic camera repair archives are over at Rangefinder forum and there should be something that will help.
Google "leaf shutter repair manual" will turn up a bit. Even if you don't find specific information, leaf shutters
are all the same but different.

shutterfinger · Sep 28, 2015

This link should help: http://ratfactor.com/yashica-d-tlr-copal-mxv-shutter
if not search for Copal MXV repair manual or Copal MXV service manual.

2. Use ZIPPO fuel AKA Ronsoln (Walgreens) AKA Naphtha for cleaning the parts. !!!

Worst recommendation one can offer. New enough shutter to contain plastic parts that will be destroyed if this solvent is used.
Isopropyl Alcohol 90% stuff available at many retailers including Target and CVS, or CRC Quick Dry Electronic Contact cleaner available at hardware stores, auto parts stores and home depot. Safe on plastics and rubber.

DuPont Teflon dry lubricant for shutter blades and aperture blades http://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Non-St...d=1443483452&sr=8-1&keywords=teflon+lubricant
TriFlow where oil is needed http://www.amazon.com/Tri-Flow-TF21...e=UTF8&qid=1443483526&sr=8-2&keywords=triflow
http://www.amazon.com/Tri-Flow-TF23...e=UTF8&qid=1443483526&sr=8-7&keywords=triflow where grease is called for.
Wet a felt pad with the oil then touch the shaft to the pad. Only a trace of oil is needed, more acts like glue. A small dab of grease about the size of a straight pin head or less is all that is needed, more may cause problems.

snikulin · Sep 28, 2015

shutterfinger said:
This link should help: http://ratfactor.com/yashica-d-tlr-copal-mxv-shutter
New enough shutter to contain plastic parts that will be destroyed if this solvent is used.

No, not in Yashica TLR Copal.
The only two non-metal parts I recall are:
1. sync cable insulation
2. a washer-like sync contact insulator made of something like composite epoxy material (CEM)

shutterfinger said:
Isopropyl Alcohol 90% stuff available at many retailers including Target and CVS.

The question is what the rest 10% is?
It's water + denaturation chemicals required by FDT and very often glycerin.
I personally ruined my very first shutter with 90% Isopropyl from CVS.

shutterfinger · Sep 28, 2015

What shutter did you ruin?
The only possible damage I've done was to Epson printers that had quit working and head cleaning with the alcohol did not resolve.

http://www.local510.org/msds_sheets/Ronsonol_MSDS.pdf
http://www.co.vermilion.il.us/MSDS/EMA/Zippo Lighter Fluid-USA.pdf
http://www.crcindustries.com/faxdocs/msds/5101.pdf hum, it contains naphatha
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924412

pays to know what you are dealing with, don't it

snikulin · Sep 29, 2015

shutterfinger said:
What shutter did you ruin?

Copal MX (my very first Yashica LM).
After 90% Isopropyl bath all steel parts got whitish matt patina.
That high friction patina prevented smooth operation and I could not remove it.
The picture below shows disassembled self timer with patina traces on the base and on the main timer spring.
(I swear I have never seen that darn dog's hair before! Yuck!)

P.S.
Yes, I know that light fractions of crude oil are bad for you. This includes gasoline and kerosene too.
Lead sinkers, pellets, shot and bullets.
Broken mercury thermometers.
Asbestos ceilings.

Good old times!

P.P.S.
Interesting to see that QD® Electronic Cleaner is essentially Naphtha!

shutterfinger · Sep 29, 2015

The QD can says petroleum distillate and alcohol but not what percentage. What sold me on it is how fast it removes stubborn dried grease and oil and that it does not harm plastics and rubber. I spray it into an empty shallow wide mouth jar, toss parts into and put the lid on then swirl it around then remove the parts. I recently purchased a ultrasonic cleaner. I fill it with the 90% alcohol, let the heater warm it up then put the parts in and run cycles to 15 minutes or more if needed. They come out as clean as any solvent.

A tip I gleaned off American Restoration, to clean rusted parts soak them in Cider Vinegar for 15 minutes to 30 minutes, rinse the vinegar off with water, dry and immediately rub with oil. Your shutter part has corrosion. Magnesium develops a white powder when it corrodes. I do not know if vinegar will work on magnesium or not but it will clean the rust off the spring that is attached.
My second choice would be a brass bristle brush, either hand held or in a Dremel.

My first shutter was a Synchro Compur 00. A post broke off so its in the parts pile.

NJguy, shutters were designed and adapted to many cameras as well as used for large format cameras. Use your digital P&S with macro mode, take a picture, remove a part, take a picture, repeat until you have it fully disassembled even if you find a manual for the shutter. Seeing where the part was makes reading the shutter manual easier. Ask more questions if and when needed.

NJguy · Sep 29, 2015

shutterfinger said:
Your shutter part has corrosion. Magnesium develops a white powder when it corrodes. I do not know if vinegar will work on magnesium or not but it will clean the rust off the spring that is attached.
My second choice would be a brass bristle brush, either hand held or in a Dremel.

Interesting you mention "powder white". I had noticed a screw area of the shutter had white on it, while another compor mvx I have doesnt, but I wrote it off thinking thats probably the way it is. But now that you said magnesium develops a white powder Im thinking maybe thats it??!

Here is a close of photo....what do you think?? If so how should I procede, do I need to dismantle the whole shutter or at least this part of it?

shutterfinger · Sep 29, 2015

The only way to clean a shutter is to disassemble it. If the part is magnesium or a magnesium alloy then brushing it clean with a brass bristle brush or similar is in order.
Many screws in shutters are secured with glyptal. To dissolve it apply some acetone (nail polish remover) with a cotton swab and allow to sit for a few minutes.

Yes, a partial to full disassembly is in order.

snikulin · Sep 29, 2015

Yashica TLR Copal shutters are designed with few separate blocks.
Each block is relatively easily removable.
The part with white stuff is shutter's escapement mechanism.
A shutter without escapement works on its fastest speed.
Escapement mechanism introduces controlled delays into shutter action and allows slower non-B speeds.

I used the below links as a guide to fix my shutters.

Extracting the shutter from the body:
Dead Link Removed
http://ratfactor.com/yashica-d-tlr-copal-mxv-shutter

The shutter itself:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/29504544@N08/sets/72157635511331115

Essentially all Yashica TLRs (starting with "C"?) are made by incrementally adding new features without removing old features.
So a lot of parts and service manuals from different versions are applicable to your MAT EM model.

snikulin · Sep 29, 2015

Here is my photo log of my Copal MXV disassemble process.
No comments and explanations, just a personal photo log: https://flic.kr/s/aHskmkdtK7

Yashica mat copal mxv shutter problem with video

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