YASHICA FX-3 2000 Mirror Repositioning

ic-racer · May 31, 2020

Yashica FX-3 2000 seem to have some issue with the mirror too far forward and hitting the rear of lenses. I have a number of these cameras and this is what I have found:

1) Just as the service manual shows, there is an approximately 20mm diameter disk of 2 sided tape that holds the mirror to the mirror assembly.
2) For some reason unknown to me, some cameras have the mirror too far forward. Is this manufacturing defect? Based on the difficulty to remove the mirror and re-position it, I don't see how the mirror can move down on its own.

3) The 2 sided tape can be melted with acetone.

4) CAUTION, many other things on the camera can be meted by acetone!! Including the focus screen.

Repair that worked for me:

1) Gently lift up the mirror and drip acetone between the mirror and the mirror holder.
2) Carefully and very slowly work a blade between the glass and the mirror holder.
3) Re-apply acetone as needed.
4) In my case, when the mirror was free, I was able to re-position it and let it sit until the acetone evaporated.
5) The camera I was working on was a Yashica FX-3 2000 that looked like it had never been used. Perfect condition, except the mirror was 2mm too far forward. After the repair, the edge of the mirror is flush with the mirror holder. Now the camera works with all my lenses, including the 15mm Fisheye, which has the most protruding rear element of all my lenses.

monopix · Jun 1, 2020

A common problem for many of the Yashica and Contax models. Caused by heat softening the adhesive and allowing the mirror to slip. If you search for Contax mirror slip you'll find plenty of information. Best way of removing the mirror is to warm it gently then insert the blade to cut through the adhesive. Remove all the old adhesive with isopropyl alcohol as that is less likely to do damage to anything else. Refit the mirror using thin double sided adhesive tape. Check the focus in case the tape isn't exactly the same thickness as the original.

ic-racer · Jun 1, 2020

Alcohol is pretty bad for a focus screen, turns it white. Even 90 % IPA it would not easily remove the hardened goo from my knife blade, where acetone removed it easily. So I'm not recommending that here. Trying to soften and remove the black gooy mess with IPA and not splash any on the focus screen seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Again, that is why I'm recommending re-positioning the mirror on the existing adhesive without cleaning the mess first.

Can't say that information about the Contax would apply here if those are affected by heat. Heat to break this loose would likely also melt the plastic of the camera top or fracture the mirror, so I see no evidence of that on my three cameras with the problem at hand here, which is likely a manufacturing defect. That is 3 of 3 FX-3 Super 2000 with the problem (2 of them came to me like new inbox). Also, 0 of 3 well-worn older FX-3, one which I kept in the glove box of car with partially melted top cover all with perfectly positioned mirror glass.
Also, of note, one of my FX-3 Super 2000 has the mirror positioned just shy of 2mm too far forward, but it actually clears the back of all my lenses. So, one can see how some of these cameras would not easily be identified as faulty unless one specifically looked for the problem. Or if one was (like me and others) using the most expensive and rare ML lenses on the most inexpensive Yashica SLR.

Also, the two lenses of the ten that I have which have the shortest back-focus distance and are most likely to get caught on a mis-positioned mirror are the 50mm f1.4 ML and 15mm ML Fisheye.

monopix · Jun 1, 2020

Alcohol won't damage a focus screen. Applying it might which is why you should never touch the screen. Acetone will melt the screen - guaranteed. I have cleaned screens with alcohol when they get to the stage there's nothing to lose. And IPA will remove the goo. Might take a little longer but it will dissolve it.

The problem is identical to the Contax issue. They use the same adhesive (Contax were made by Yashica).

I've fixed many of these slipped mirrors on both Yashica and Contax bodies so I do know what I'm talking about.

It's quite likely your focus is off if you didn't clean all the goo off and use new adhesive. The thickness of the adhesive is very critical.

ic-racer · Jun 1, 2020

Thank you for you insight monopix. I photograph all my repairs, but needed two hands here. Do you have any photographs of the repair you could share?
Not mentioned is smoothing out the goop and applying good pressure on the mirror to ensure flatness. Focus check and re-calibration of the mirror is covered in this post but not needed in my case.

I have done three now, and had appropriate 2 sided tape ready on the first one, but the method describe worked so well I repeated it with the other two cameras.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...or-on-yashica-super-2000.174489/#post-2269661

ic-racer · Jun 1, 2020

I've fixed many of these slipped mirrors on both Yashica and Contax bodies so I do know what I'm talking about.

What is your experience with escapement repairs on these? I jut got a very clean FX-3 Super 2000 with 1/2 and 1/4 out. Looks like a blade on the escapement retracts between 1/2 and 1/4 as the speed dial is rotated. Something special about those two speeds, as the others work fine.

monopix · Jun 2, 2020

ic-racer said:
What is your experience with escapement repairs on these? I jut got a very clean FX-3 Super 2000 with 1/2 and 1/4 out. Looks like a blade on the escapement retracts between 1/2 and 1/4 as the speed dial is rotated. Something special about those two speeds, as the others work fine.

How far out is it? The 1/2 and 1/4 generally run a bit fast if the 1 sec is OK. There's no adjustment for just the 1/2 and 1/4. You can adjust the slow speeds overall. The spec allows +/- 0.4 EV variation at 1/2 and 1/4. I've never had one outside that so never had reason to fix one.

monopix · Jun 2, 2020

ic-racer said:
Thank you for you insight monopix. I photograph all my repairs, but needed two hands here. Do you have any photographs of the repair you could share?
Not mentioned is smoothing out the goop and applying good pressure on the mirror to ensure flatness. Focus check and re-calibration of the mirror is covered in this post but not needed in my case.

I have done three now, and had appropriate 2 sided tape ready on the first one, but the method describe worked so well I repeated it with the other two cameras.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...or-on-yashica-super-2000.174489/#post-2269661

No, sorry, I don't have any pictures.

ic-racer · Jun 2, 2020

monopix said:
How far out is it? The 1/2 and 1/4 generally run a bit fast if the 1 sec is OK. There's no adjustment for just the 1/2 and 1/4. You can adjust the slow speeds overall. The spec allows +/- 0.4 EV variation at 1/2 and 1/4. I've never had one outside that so never had reason to fix one.

No escapement action at all on those two they appear to be firing at the x-synch speed. Also B does not work, it also seems to fire at the x-synch speed. Otherwise all other speeds appear to function normally including 1 sec. Too bad because the camera appears unused; looks brand new. Not a single mark or blemish on the baseplate.

The generic Copal-S manual I have seems to show a slightly different mechanism than the Yashica. It describes the escapement mechanism grouping 1 second with 1/2 and 1/4. Yet my 1 second if perfectly fine. Also I can see a retard cam for 1 sec move out of the way on all my working shutters at 1/2 and 1/4, then the same cam moving back in place at 1/8.

ic-racer · Jun 3, 2020

I have the FX-3 Super 2000 with the faulty shutter open. The Copal Square drive cam (where the main spring is attached) is wobbly on the shaft. Not sure how this can be, but due to the wobble, it sometimes misses contact with the Coupling Plate the goes to the escapement. This explains the lack of slow speeds. The Coupling Plate also stops the cam to enable the "B" function. So this explains why the "B" is rapid. This is essentially a new/unsold camera, so this is some quality control issue.

ic-racer · Jun 4, 2020

The drive cam is somehow loose. When I push it toward the rear of the camera, so it will engage with the escapement, after a few shutter cycles, it move forward again and then no longer engages with the escapement.
Disassembly of this will be difficult, because the drive cam is on the same shaft as the main spring. I get the impression the main spring came pre-assembled on the shaft in the shutter assembly and assembly of this was not part of the cameras assembly at Kyocera (based on the lack of information about the shutter in the service manual). For example, the parts diagram only shows the complete Copal shutter with escapement as a single unit.

monopix · Jun 5, 2020

The shutters would have been fully assembled and setup by Copal. In the S2 manual (IIRC) it says specifically that shutters should be replaced and come ready setup - hence no information.

All/most of the Yashicas were assembled in China by Phenix, not by Kyocera. Kyocera only assembled the high end Contax cameras.

If you want a replacement shutter, there's lots of cheaply available models that use the same shutter. Sold under Phenix, Vivitar and several other names. Just look out for the ones with the 2000 shutter speed. A Vivitar V3800N is one example.

ic-racer · Jun 5, 2020

Again monopix thank you for contributing here. I have good news to report, I was able to affix the cam to the plastic drum, with which it rotates with a small amount of CA. I have released the shutter over 100 times and the repair has held. I re-assembled the camera and it is back in service.

ic-racer · Jun 5, 2020

Here is a picture of the drive cam. Shutter is cocked and ready to go:

ic-racer · Jun 5, 2020

Detail of the lever to the escapement. The drive cam should push this out of the way when it spins up, but you can see the black marks where the drive cam rides up over the lever, and does not push it at all.

ic-racer · Jun 5, 2020

The arrows show where CA was placed to affix the cam back to the white plastic drum with which it rotates. Kind of a last ditch effort. I had already picked out a shutter donor camera on ebay but did not have to buy it.

ic-racer · Jun 5, 2020

I re-attached the wind lever and speed dial to test the shutter over the course of two days before re-assembling.

ic-racer · Jun 5, 2020

The repair held, so I re-assembled the camera:

monopix · Dec 30, 2020

monopix said:
No, sorry, I don't have any pictures.

I do now. http://www.contax139.co.uk/mirror-replacement

ic-racer · Dec 30, 2020

Nice. I hope this helps people get their Yashica and Contax cameras with this issue back in service.

YASHICA FX-3 2000 Mirror Repositioning

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