Yashica EM - Internal Reflections?

Shoom · May 1, 2018

Hey all.

My friend started scanning some photos from a Yashica EM and they look a bit off. The density at the left and right of the images kind of looks like some internal reflections. I know that Yashica TLRs are known to have this issue, but I was thinking it might be a good idea to get some more opinions before we try to mess around with flocking.

It is a bit hard to say, because I made a tiiiiiiny mistake while processing the B/W photos (Accidentally poured in D76 stock instead of fixer... Thankfully noticed it and dumped it before too long). Though I'm also seeing something similar on C-41 negatives as well, so I'm inclined to blame the camera instead of processing. I realize though that there are quite a few variables going on.

In case anyone is interested, the color photo was Portra 400 (slightly expired) and the B/W are FP4+.

shutterfinger · May 1, 2018

Several years back I was out on Blair Island shooting some B&W in a 4x5. It was a semi hazy day with a half mile visibility above 500 feet. When I processed the film and tried to scan it it came out with splotches in the sky areas. It took a while for me to realize that the smog/haze did not have the even tone on film that it appeared to have to my eye.
What was the atmosphere like when you made the exposures? Less than Chrystal clear?

Sirius Glass · May 1, 2018

Was the roll of film tightly wound after exposure and keep out of bright light?

ic-racer · May 1, 2018

Developer exhaustion can give similar results with reel-processing. Seeing the negatives might help know the problem.

Shoom · May 1, 2018

shutterfinger said:
Several years back I was out on Blair Island shooting some B&W in a 4x5. It was a semi hazy day with a half mile visibility above 500 feet. When I processed the film and tried to scan it it came out with splotches in the sky areas. It took a while for me to realize that the smog/haze did not have the even tone on film that it appeared to have to my eye.
What was the atmosphere like when you made the exposures? Less than Chrystal clear?

Less than crystal clear as far as I can remember. It was a few weeks ago though. While that could explain the BW shots, the color one still seems off to me. There's also a chance that these have been affected by his post-processing.

Sirius Glass said:
Was the roll of film tightly wound after exposure and keep out of bright light?

As far as I can remember yes.

ic-racer said:
Developer exhaustion can give similar results with reel-processing. Seeing the negatives might help know the problem.

If Rodinal is known for one thing, it's not a short shelf life.
Joking aside, my bottle is toward the end and has gone quite purple, but the results are still consistent and predictable when I process FP4+ from my Nikon F3, so I don't think that's the issue. I always develop 1+50 one shot, using at least filtered water.
The C-41 was within nominal capacity. Development was within a few days of mixing chemicals. It was stored in amber glass bottles with liquid to the very top. I'm using the CineStill branded kit, bought from Freestyle, if that information is worth anything.

I have asked for positive scans for the negatives, as I am legitimately asking for a friend and do not have them on hand. It might take a bit for that though. I am tempted to say that these might also be post processing artifacts, because I know he's scanning on an Epson v600. Though, I have gotten similar flare from my own Mat 124.

shutterfinger · May 2, 2018

While I don't think the atmosphere was the cause it could be a contributing factor.
I would lock the shutter open and inspect the light path from the lens front element to the pressure plate for thin or reflective surfaces. If the edges of the lens cells are not black they can be causing the reduced contrast/saturation.

Dan Daniel · May 2, 2018

The B&W edge issue is standard agitation problem on 120 film. You are not getting enough fresh developer over the center of the film. That's a whole other topic, how people agitate film, but that's your problem. (You also have a scratch running the right side of the B&W- run a cotton swab around your film path to see if there's a paint edge or such.)

The color image appears to be some side lighting? Open shade allows for all sorts of light effects. Even your shirt color would be affecting things in such an image. Do you have a lens hood?

Yes, the YashicaMats have internal reflection issues. I've used telescope flocking to cut it down effectively. But from the shots above your problems lie mainly elsewhere.

paul ron · May 2, 2018

the light bars on tge sides may be the scanners light source. i get this when scaning on my epson... the tube is a U shape.

Shoom · May 2, 2018

Dan Daniel said:
The B&W edge issue is standard agitation problem on 120 film. You are not getting enough fresh developer over the center of the film. That's a whole other topic, how people agitate film, but that's your problem. (You also have a scratch running the right side of the B&W- run a cotton swab around your film path to see if there's a paint edge or such.)

The color image appears to be some side lighting? Open shade allows for all sorts of light effects. Even your shirt color would be affecting things in such an image. Do you have a lens hood?

Yes, the YashicaMats have internal reflection issues. I've used telescope flocking to cut it down effectively. But from the shots above your problems lie mainly elsewhere.

Because of the little mistake with D76 I can't really say whether the B/W issue is processing or not because it certainly did not receive 'normal' processing. The line actually seems to be a scanner calibration issue, as it shows up on other formats in the same way. Probably some dust in the calibration area.

We always use lens hoods. I've been trying to convince him to try the flocking...

paul ron said:
the light bars on tge sides may be the scanners light source. i get this when scaning on my epson... the tube is a U shape.

View attachment 199978

And these are the reasons I abandoned my own scanner for an enlarger

Dan Daniel · May 2, 2018

Shoom said:
Because of the little mistake with D76 I can't really say whether the B/W issue is processing or not because it certainly did not receive 'normal' processing.

It looks like an agitation issue. Is this a standard hand-held tank inverted for agitation?

Shoom · May 2, 2018

Dan Daniel said:
It looks like an agitation issue. Is this a standard hand-held tank inverted for agitation?

Metal handheld Kindermann tank. I don't think it's agitation because this is another shot off the same roll, with none of the inconsistencies above. I'm inclined to say it was either the atmosphere or reflections at this point.
When I'm processing normally, I'll do 2 inversions a minute for Rodinal 1+50 at 20C. I've found that stuff to be very sensitive to overagitation, but I might try doing a bit more the next time around...

paul ron · May 4, 2018

Shoom said:
Hey all.

My friend started scanning some photos from a Yashica EM and they look a bit off. The density at the left and right of the images kind of looks like some internal reflections. I know that Yashica TLRs are known to have this issue, but I was thinking it might be a good idea to get some more opinions before we try to mess around with flocking.

It is a bit hard to say, because I made a tiiiiiiny mistake while processing the B/W photos (Accidentally poured in D76 stock instead of fixer... Thankfully noticed it and dumped it before too long). Though I'm also seeing something similar on C-41 negatives....
View attachment 199968 View attachment 199967 View attachment 199966 View attachment 199965

im confused... you say those are scaned... but you blame the processing and the camera?

have you printed those b&ws?... bars still there?... examine the negatives?

ransel · May 6, 2018

Many years ago I determined that I needed to be more gentle when agitating my 35mm film - I was getting "surge marks" from the developer rushing thru the sprocket holes in the film. Out of habit, when I developed 120 film I used the same gentle agitation, slowly tipping and turning the daylight tank - what I got was an under developed band running the entire length of the film, right down the center. So, I am now, far less gentle when I tip and turn the 120 film tank during agitation compared to 35mm - and that was that.

Yashica EM - Internal Reflections?

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