Yashica D TLR Winding Component Function?

russell_w_b · Jan 1, 2021

Hello all,

Does the spring-loaded rod and gearwheel beneath the take-up spool in a Yashica TLR have any function other than engaging the frame counter when the take-up spool is fitted? I've just noticed that (with an empty spool) in my 1962 Yashica D the rotation observed when winding is irregular and the gearwheel sticks sometimes. I'm asking as I've been having occasional overlapping frame issues - nothing serious, but slight overlaps between frames 8-9 and 11-12.
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Kind Regds,

R.

Dan Daniel · Jan 1, 2021

That gear does more than drive the frame counter. Underneath the frame counter dial is a notched disk, called the metering (measuring) disk. A pawl connected to the wind lever system drops into a notch to stop the wind lever from moving forward.

When you fire the shutter, you also release this pawl. The wind lever can move, this pulls the film up, rotating the silver gear in the takeup film chamber. This gear in turn rotates the notch disk... well, no, it rotates the frame numbering disk which is screwed into the notched metering disk. When the pawl drops into the next notch, the wind lever stops and will not move until the shutter is fired.

Your metering disk could be defective. But most likely there is dirt in the system.

When you use an empty spool for testing, the silver gear jumps and grabs on the ridges in the spool. Take some masking tape and wrap three or four layers at the spool flange so that the silver gear rolls across this instead.

RLangham · Jan 1, 2021

Dan Daniel said:
When you fire the shutter, you also release this pawl.

*When you press the button on the knob. Wind stopping is automatic, but release is manual on the D.

The shutter is not connected to the winding mechanism in any way--neither automatic cocking, nor double exposure protection nor true skipped-frame protection. It's one of the nicest models in the knob-wind lineup, with as good of a shutter as Yashica ever put on a TLR and great flash capabilities, but it's still definitely not a Yashica-mat in terms of how the winding mechanism is set up.

I would assume everything else you said applies, however.

Out of interest, Russell, what D do you have? Yashikor, Yashinon, or Yashinon with 2.8 viewing lens? I just bought the latter the day after Christmas and was surprised to find that it's the most sought-after variant of the D, commanding a premium apparently.

But I digress. If there's no damage to parts, it'll be a cheap fix. The behavior with the empty spool is not alarming, but I wouldn't keep doing it. If you like I can recommend the tech that I use (not an afiliate.)

russell_w_b · Jan 1, 2021

RLangham said:
Out of interest, Russell, what D do you have? Yashikor, Yashinon, or Yashinon with 2.8 viewing lens? I just bought the latter the day after Christmas and was surprised to find that it's the most sought-after variant of the D, commanding a premium apparently.

It's got the Yashikor f3.5 viewing and taking lenses; had one previous owner who bought it new in 1963 (serial number suggests 1962 though) and it's in good nick. It belonged to the father of someone I work with. I paid £60 UKP for it and an immaculate Praktica IV-F and a box of accessories. I've had two Yashicamats and a 'Mat 124G in the past but I love this one and shall keep it.

I think I may have scored an own-goal with my mis-aligned frames. When winding on I've been pushing and holding the winder button as I started to turn, and likely you're only meant to press the button THEN turn the knob! I came across this info on the 'Flickr' group, along with the advice about using masking tape (Thanks,Dan. ).

I suppose the camera would benefit from a CLA at some point but I'll fire a roll of Foma through it and be mindful of my winding-on technique. Thanks for all your replies; appreciated.
--

R.

RLangham · Jan 1, 2021

russell_w_b said:
It's got the Yashikor f3.5 viewing and taking lenses; had one previous owner who bought it new in 1963 (serial number suggests 1962 though)

The Yashikor apparently does not deserve its reputation as a lesser lens at all. There's nothing wrong with it at all, they say.

They're all Tessar-like, in performance if not in actual formula. And I'd almost rather one of the two variants where, as on yours, the viewing lens matches the taking lens in aperture. I don't really see the point of having a wider aperture on the viewing lens, since it doesn't really get you that much extra brightness and it does prevent you from seeing what the DoF will be at max aperture--eg, for portraits in available light.

I think I may have scored an own-goal with my mis-aligned frames. When winding on I've been pushing and holding the winder button as I started to turn, and likely you're only meant to press the button THEN turn the knob! I came across this info on the 'Flickr' group, along with the advice about using masking tape (Thanks,Dan. ).

Well, I hope that's all it is. Medium format is great but automatic film transport is the absolute bugbear. I've seen a lot of different ways of doing it, including the notorious Kodak Medalist with its tendency towards cumulative errors. And my Yashica-mat had the film transport absolutely ruined. Overlapped every frame.

Unperfed film just doesn't lend itself to that kind of mechanism very well. It's almost a shame 70mm film never got more mainstream for general photography.

reddesert · Jan 1, 2021

Dan Daniel said:
When you use an empty spool for testing, the silver gear jumps and grabs on the ridges in the spool.

This x 100. There may be nothing wrong with your camera.

There are a lot of roll film cameras and film backs that have automatic frame counting, but no shutter/wind interlock, because it makes the mechanism more complicated. (You find this on everything from modest folders and TLRs, to roll film backs for 4x5 cameras.) On most of these, there is a little button or lever that you press or flick to release the wind knob stop and allow you to wind to the next frame. I've not encountered one where the button needed more than a moment's press, if working correctly.

RLangham · Jan 1, 2021

reddesert said:
This x 100. There may be nothing wrong with your camera.

There are a lot of roll film cameras and film backs that have automatic frame counting, but no shutter/wind interlock, because it makes the mechanism more complicated. (You find this on everything from modest folders and TLRs, to roll film backs for 4x5 cameras.) On most of these, there is a little button or lever that you press or flick to release the wind knob stop and allow you to wind to the next frame. I've not encountered one where the button needed more than a moment's press, if working correctly.

On the old Argus cameras, if you didn't release the button while turning, the advance just wouldn't stop!

Dan Daniel · Jan 2, 2021

RLangham said:
*When you press the button on the knob. Wind stopping is automatic, but release is manual on the D.

Oops, you are right. I was thinking and discussing specifics of a YashicaMat, not a D. Thanks for clarifying.

RLangham · Jan 2, 2021

Dan Daniel said:
Oops, you are right. I was thinking and discussing specifics of a YashicaMat, not a D. Thanks for clarifying.

Understandable... It's much more like a mat than like most of the knob-winds. It and its variant the 635 are the only ones with a nice shutter and thumbwheels.

russell_w_b · Jan 2, 2021

reddesert said:
I've not encountered one where the button needed more than a moment's press, if working correctly.

Thanks for that. When I got the camera it hadn't been used for years, although the shutter works fine on all settings, and even the self-timer works! But it may have been down to gunge in the winding-on index. I did notice that occasionally, after pushing the button, the knob would only turn so far then stop, and the frame number hadn't incremented fully, so had to repeat the process. Maybe a delay in the mechanism dropping in?

I exercised it a few times without hitch and am now ready for frame 4 on a roll of film, so we'll see.
--

R.

russell_w_b · Jan 2, 2021

RLangham said:
The Yashikor apparently does not deserve its reputation as a lesser lens at all. There's nothing wrong with it at all, they say.

Yeah, I've read some disparaging things about the Yashikor (and some good things too) but it's always seemed fine to me, and not noticed any difference between it the Yashinon lenses on my previous Yashicamats. It's a three-element lens and I understand the Yashinon is four-element. But I'm quite happy with the three-elements on my folders too, as long as I don't exceed their limitations.

RLangham said:
Well, I hope that's all it is.

Me too! I'll find out soon.

Yashica D TLR Winding Component Function?

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