XTOL Snow Globes (precipitate problem)

[bvy]

I mixed a fresh batch of XTOL last night, and just like last time, I have snowy precipitate floating around in the bottles. Here's what I did and some observations:
- I mixed everything with DISTILLED water at 80F.
- Part A was COMPLETELY DISSOLVED before adding part B (took about 30 minutes of stirring and crushing the remaining particles). Part B dissolved more easily but was still stirred up thoroughly.
- The stock solution was decanted to 18 or so 250ml clear glass bottles with polyseal caps. The bottles are brand new, and were cleaned with 140F water and rinsed with distilled water prior to use.
- All mixing vessels were cleaned thoroughly prior to use.
- The precipitate was NOT THERE last night. This morning, it's quite noticeable. The bottles, which are filled to capacity, look like snow globes under light.

There are a lot of threads on this, and a lot of speculation. The general consensus is that it doesn't hurt anything. If that's the case, is it worth trying to fix this problem during preparation (though I don't see what I could do differently)? If that's not the case, then should I filter the stock solution before use? Can someone point to a case or evidence that the precipitate can produce inferior results?

I mix it 1+1 and use it one shot. I also agitate continuously.

Thanks.

 

[Svenedin]

Where did you store the bottles overnight? Did they get cold?

 

[Neal]

Dear bvy,

On the one occasion it happened I filtered as I used it but I had no reason to do it other than it made me feel better.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

 

[bvy]

Where did you store the bottles overnight? Did they get cold?

Basement at room temperature, which is a pretty constant 70F.

 

[mshchem]

I've been using XTOL since it came out. I do it just like you. I use a variable speed propeller mixer, as you I am sure, know you got to keep it moving,, but you don't want to mix in air. I always have a little bit of something in the bottom of the mixing beaker, not more than a little bit.
I just went down stairs and checked, bottles I have had mixed for 6 months are clear.
I wouldn't worry about it, let it sit it may go into solution. Temperature can do weird things. I wouldn't be surprised if it cleared up on sitting.
I don't think I have ever filtered. When you make your 1:1 (this is how I have always used) if there's crud on the bottom, decant off the supernatant liquid (I love that word ) leave the crud behind. I suspect you got 99.5% of the powder dissolved. Maybe Kodak is using lower grade sodium sulfite??? Who knows.

You are doing this as perfectly as can be done. I use PET bottles, same basic routine. The stuff will last for 18 months or longer the way you have it stored. I would give it some time and see if it clears up. If you want to filter it do it right before you use it. Time is on your side.
Keep us updated.
Best Regards, Mike

 

[Sirius Glass]

I mix XTOL with very warm to hot water starting with Solution A and then on to Solution B and I still have to work hard to get all the powder to go into solution. Just like all the other dry chemistry.

 

[mshchem]

I have always used something like this or a magnetic stirrer. Trying to dissolve XTOL by hand is a Pain. I think I get it hotter than 80 F but not by much. Watch Ebay. First one I used was a lot less fancy. I have one that's a little smaller than this . I got off ebay. I refuse to buy liquid developers, I like mixing stuff.
Best Mike

 

[Sirius Glass]

OR a variable speed electric drill with a mixer attachment.

 

[bvy]

Must find a way to love HC-110...

 

[mshchem]

Must find a way to love HC-110...

Oh I love HC-110 , I replenished 1 gallon batches of dilution B. Usually out of some unknown fear I would make a new gallon once a year or so . If you don't Jobo (I fear the oxidation ) HC-110 is glorious as a replenished developer, now that EK no longer makes separate replenisher you can use the developer. Like I said I like mixing chemicals . You have all the lovely bottles with the poly seal caps (my personal favorite ) They will hold HC-110 which is eternal .
I have a pre-Alaris bottle of HC-110 downstairs , maybe it's time to get out my hard rubber tanks
Best Regards Mike

 

[PeterB]

OR a variable speed electric drill with a mixer attachment.

As in a kitchen appliance mixer attachment, or a paint mixer for example ?

 

[Svenedin]

After reading this thread I have had a look at my stock solution. I also have white fluffy crystals at the bottom (not there when mixed). My stock was mixed about 2 weeks ago in deionised (battery top-up) water, as per instructions, and is in brim-full, glass (green) old gin bottles. What I can say about my storage is the temperature is not constant and drops significantly at night. We don't heat the house during sleeping hours.

 

[Chris Livsey]

Interesting that the reports of crystals forming are (mainly?) coming from those using DI or distilled water. ( I have not trawled the diverse threads on this topic and certainly some are low on facts to allow comparisons to be fair) It's a while since I ran a batch but do Kodak specify DI ? I suspect not, they add I am sure sequestering agents to "mop" up stray "contaminants". There may be no connection at all, and I do use DI for home brew developers as I don't add sequestering agents so I am not dogmatic but I wonder if mixing in tap water would show a difference?

 

[Kawaiithulhu]

The first batch I ever made precipitated after sitting around for a couple days. All my other batches, haven't seen it at all.
I still filter the stock when mixing to a working solution, just out of habit.

Maybe I'm more patient but I've never had a problem mixing the powder with just a hand held paddle, but I add the powder very slowly.

 

[mshchem]

I tried mixing XTOL with softened Hard water, There was so much sodium carbonate in the water (Calcium carbonate is converted to sodium carbonate when softened) that it was a disaster. Just a bunch of crud that was totally insoluble.
The purer the water the better off you are. Put your bottles in a warmer spot 21 to 24 C. I bet you will have clear XTOL.

I use RO water from my system, never had a problem.
Best Mike

 

[Sirius Glass]

OR a variable speed electric drill with a mixer attachment.

As in a kitchen appliance mixer attachment, or a paint mixer for example ?

Either or both.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Interesting reading. When replenishing Xtol developer byproducts build up, but they have no effect on development, so I just leave it alone.

If it were me mixing this developer, I'd just try it and see what happens.

When I mix Xtol I use a normal stainless steel whisk. I don't care too much if there's a little bit of Part A that's not in solution, I just mix in Part B and continue. During my 5 years using Xtol almost exclusively I never had a single problem with developer activity. I always used tap water, but realize that is a regional thing, what the water quality is like.

 

[mshchem]

Interesting reading. When replenishing Xtol developer byproducts build up, but they have no effect on development, so I just leave it alone.

If it were me mixing this developer, I'd just try it and see what happens.

When I mix Xtol I use a normal stainless steel whisk. I don't care too much if there's a little bit of Part A that's not in solution, I just mix in Part B and continue. During my 5 years using Xtol almost exclusively I never had a single problem with developer activity. I always used tap water, but realize that is a regional thing, what the water quality is like.

If I was up on the North Shore of Lake Superior with all the beautiful basalt I would use the tap water in a heart beat

Down hear in Iowa we have 300 feet of pure Limestone, It depends on the city you live in. When I lived in Cedar Rapids, very deep wells, I never used anything but tap water for everything, It's the best tap water in Iowa. Here in Coralville (Yes the town is named after the bedrock) I cant get by mixing powdered developers with tap. We soften our house water for dishes, bathing etc. This water won't work with XTOL either. The whisk is an excellent idea. I agree some A side that doesn't dissolve doesn't matter.