Xtol packaging...

Resoman · Sep 2, 2008

Can anyone tell me the story behind Kodak's decision to only offer Xtol developer in five liter packages? I assume there's a reason for it, but I don't know what it is.

As little film as I shoot, I'd be inclined to but several one liter packages and mix them as needed. The five liter volume is a lot more than I need, and I don't have a convenient means of storing it. I guess the best storage approach would be getting five one-liter bottles, but the developer would likely be several months old before I got to my last bottle.

I just checked, and B&H currently lists D-76 and Microdol-X in both one liter and one gallon sizes. I've heard some horror stories from years past about Xtol mixed from the one liter packages having a very short life but, if they can package other developers in a one liter size, what's so tricky about Xtol?

I liked Xtol as soon as I tried it, and was really pleased that Kodak made the investment necessary develop and market it. It would likely be the only developer I use, if it were packaged like Kodak's other b&w developers are.

Thanks,

Gary,
East Snook, TX

JonPorter · Sep 2, 2008

According to the current data guide, Xtol is available in 1 liter size. Maybe just not in America...
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j109/j109.jhtml

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Sep 2, 2008

XTOL keeps well in bottles. Get some cheap glass bottles, tighten them up hermetically, and stop worrying about your developer being a few months old.

Tim Gray · Sep 2, 2008

Use half liter bottles. It works great for many months.

fschifano · Sep 2, 2008

Short answer. It keeps as well as D-76 provided you keep air away from it, at least six months. Don't worry about the 5L size.

Jordan · Sep 2, 2008

IIRC there was a big quality-control problem with the 1 L packages (caking, sudden death of mixed developer) that led to Kodak removing them from the market entirely. Maybe Photo Engineer can provide more details.

Neal · Sep 2, 2008

Dear Gary,

What all the others said. Several small bottles take up very little room in a reasonably small box and they seem (to me at least) to be more convenient that one large bottle.

Neal Wydra

Trask · Sep 2, 2008

Use Foma EXCEL, available through Freestyle. It's reportedly an XTOL clone.

Chazzy · Sep 2, 2008

I thought that Kodak had resumed selling the one-liter packages a long time ago, using new packaging materials.

jim appleyard · Sep 2, 2008

Chazzy said:
I thought that Kodak had resumed selling the one-liter packages a long time ago, using new packaging materials.

There's a current thread that touches on this subject at our good friends, photo.net. I did a search at Freestyle, Adorama and B&H for 1 liter X-Tol; no listing, but another poster thinks it might only be available in 1 liter sizes outside the US.
http://photo.net/black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/00QfxH

srs5694 · Sep 2, 2008

Another option is to mix your own XTOL workalike, such as Mytol or Instant Mytol. Doing so will require you to buy about half a dozen ingredients and a scale capable of measuring small weights. You'll then be able to mix up as much or as little developer as you like (within the limits imposed by the precision of your scale). You might or might not want to go to the effort, but you should be aware that the option is available.

Resoman · Sep 2, 2008

I'm still curious about the reason to sell Xtol in 5 liter packages, when all the other Kodak developers are sold by the gallon. Is the 5 liter volume a perfect fit for some kind of processor, or something?

Gary

fschifano · Sep 4, 2008

Here's a thought. XTOL serves as its own replenisher. There is no separately formulated XTOL replenisher as there is with D-76 as in the form of D-76R. It was marketed to pro labs where replenished developers are the norm. The 5L size would give you enough to fill a large tank, with enough left over to serve as replenisher.

john_s · Sep 6, 2008

It lasts longer, and is easier to store, if mixed double strength and then diluted appropriately before use.

Chazzy · Sep 7, 2008

jim appleyard said:
There's a current thread that touches on this subject at our good friends, photo.net. I did a search at Freestyle, Adorama and B&H for 1 liter X-Tol; no listing, but another poster thinks it might only be available in 1 liter sizes outside the US.
http://photo.net/black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/00QfxH

I thought that I remembered seeing only the 1-liter packages at my local camera store a few weeks ago (I was looking for the 5-liter packages). I'll check to see whether they still have them. I guess there's a remote chance that they're old stock, but I thought that the problem packaging had long since been discarded.

Double Negative · Sep 12, 2008

Since we don't have the one liter bottles here in the states that our Canadian and European friends have, I found the next best thing... Good ol' (lousy) American beer bottles in 40oz. sizes! Much better than the plastic Delta1 "Datatainers" these brown glass bottles with metal caps are great for storing oxygen-sensitive solutions and work out to be cheaper than "photography containers." While you could drink the beer, honestly, I'd suggest dumping it down the drain...

Turns out 5l of Xtol fit *perfectly* in four such bottles with about a 1/4" of an air gap each!

Ian Grant · Sep 12, 2008

Resoman said:
I'm still curious about the reason to sell Xtol in 5 liter packages, when all the other Kodak developers are sold by the gallon. Is the 5 liter volume a perfect fit for some kind of processor, or something?

Gary

This is mainly because the US gallon isn't a valid internationally recognized standard size, no one outside of the US can use it. A US gallon is significantly smaller than the UK gallon it's derived from, probably due to early american traders selling short measure

Litres are the International standard, scientists everywhere all use metric measures now. NASA used to make huge errors before they went metric !!!!

When Xtol manufacture ceased outside the US (in the UK etc) we were told it would only be available in US gallons, that didn't happen because no other country has measuring jugs/cylinders etc calibrated for US measures, so it went metric like 99.9% of the world.

Ian

fschifano · Sep 12, 2008

That doesn't explain why D-76, Dektol, and Fixer are sold in packages that make 1 US gallon. Surely, they sell this stuff outside the US. So why, if they package these items differently for export, can they not do the same with XTOL? Don't get me wrong. I really don't care which unit of measure is used. I can measure it all the same. I just don't understand the lack of standardization.

Tom Stanworth · Sep 13, 2008

Resoman said:
I'm still curious about the reason to sell Xtol in 5 liter packages, when all the other Kodak developers are sold by the gallon. Is the 5 liter volume a perfect fit for some kind of processor, or something?

Gary

No, I think it is because the rest of the world uses the metric system! Its the gallon sized pack which is the oddity if anything. I find it incredible that the imperial system is still in use....

FWIW, I find the constant fears Xtol failure silly. One hears about people wittering on about something that happened with a 1l pack 8 years ago when people know the history to the issue and its solution.

My work space averages about 24-6 degs C. I keep my Xtol in brown plastic (detta) bottles and it lasts 6 months. It has even lasted 5 months in half full bottles. Just test some on a leader and if after a 3-5 mins or so the leader darkens nicely you know the dev is still nice and active. If you cannot get thru 5 litres in 6 months then you need to shoot more film!

Ian Grant · Sep 13, 2008

There's the anomaly of D76 sold in the UK in 3.8 litre packaging (1 US Gallon) and it's Replenisher in 5 litre packaging. D76 & Dektol (powder) are the only Kodak chemicals not sold in fully metric packaging. But neither are particularly big sellers in the UK where Ilford ID-11 etc are far more common.

Across Europe & South America you're far more likely to find Ilford B&W films, papers & chemicals. Since dropping their B&W papers Kodak have lost much of their share of the B&W processing market.

Ian

MikeSeb · Sep 14, 2008

Ian, I much prefer to measure my D-76 in drams and buy my bulk chemicals by the stone.

Xtol packaging...

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