Xtol from Photo Systems 2025?

retina_restoration · Apr 19, 2025

Are any of you buying/using the current Xtol manufactured by Photo Systems Inc. here in the US? Have you found it to be reliable and consistent? First hand experiences welcomed.
I'd like to be able to use Kodak Xtol again, but I have difficulty trusting any Kodak branded chemistry after my experiences with it back in the early 2010s. Anyone remember the "molasses Dektol"??

John Wiegerink · Apr 19, 2025

retina_restoration said:
Are any of you buying/using the current Xtol manufactured by Photo Systems Inc. here in the US? Have you found it to be reliable and consistent? First hand experiences welcomed.
I'd like to be able to use Kodak Xtol again, but I have difficulty trusting any Kodak branded chemistry after my experiences with it back in the early 2010s. Anyone remember the "molasses Dektol"??

I got tired of playing games like "off again-on again" availability and switching of manufactures of Xtol. I switched to Adox XT-3 for my replenishment system and have no regrets in doing so. I do have to admit I had to wait for my last 1L pack (used for the replenisher) to be in stock at Freestyle.

Alan9940 · Apr 19, 2025

Not Xtol, but I did buy two 1 gal packs of D-76 made by Photo Systems to use for 8x10 film development in tanks & hangers. No issues to report.

mshchem · Apr 19, 2025

PSI has been making photochemistry for over 50 years

retina_restoration · Apr 19, 2025

mshchem said:
PSI has been making photochemistry for over 50 years

Forgive me, but after buying a sh*tload of bad Xtol, D-76 and Dektol about 7 years ago, I do not trust any "Kodak" branded chemistry, regardless of who made it. I want proof that I'm going to get a reliable product I can trust.

So far, three replies, but no reports from anyone who has bought and used the PSI production of Xtol??

mshchem · Apr 19, 2025

retina_restoration said:
Forgive me, but after buying a sh*tload of bad Xtol, D-76 and Dektol about 7 years ago, I do not trust any "Kodak" branded chemistry, regardless of who made it. I want proof that I'm going to get a reliable product I can trust.

So far, three replies, but no reports from anyone who has bought and used the PSI production of Xtol??

I have (am using) PSI made XTOL, works fine. The problem stuff was from Sino Promise. Current batches (not old stock) available from B&H, Cinestill should be exactly the same as Kodak way back when. If you want the original HC-110 you'll need a time machine, Adox claims to be making the (OG) HC-110 syrup, we shall see.

btaylor · Apr 19, 2025

Retina-restoration, I do not have direct experience with PSI manufactured Xtol, and I certainly understand your concern.
With that out of the way I do want to say I’ve been using PSI products since the ‘80s (back in the Unicolor days) and I’ve never had a problem. C41, E6, Dektol clone, HC110 clone and probably more I don’t remember.

gkardmw · Apr 19, 2025

I have been using Xtol for the past year, bought about a year ago. About half done with the 5 gallons using replenishing system and working just fine. I don't think you need to worry.

runswithsizzers · Apr 19, 2025

retina_restoration said:
So far, three replies, but no reports from anyone who has bought and used the PSI production of Xtol??

@retina_restoration, I bought a 5 liter pkg of Kodak Xtol from B&H in October of 2024, and the packaging indicated "made in USA by Photo Systems, Inc." I mixed the kit with grocery store distilled water in November 2024.

So far, I have used that batch of Xtol to develop only one roll of film (it was a rough winter for my family):
Ilford Delta 3200 in 120 <https://garywright.smugmug.com/Photography/Ilford-Delta-3200-120-Nov-2024>

That roll was the first time I've done any night shooting in decades, and also my first and only roll of Delta 3200. So I hesitate to comment on my results because they are outside of my normal experience. I was able to print several of those negatives in the darkroom, and I don't remember having any unusual difficulty, so I assume the development of the negatives must have been more-or-less normal(?) In the link, there is a shot of my negatives on a light table, if you want to judge them for yourself.

I hope to develop another roll soon (Ilford SFX 200), and I can report back if it's any help.

mshchem · Apr 19, 2025

When Jobo USA was in Ann Arbor Michigan, same vicinity as Dexter Michigan, pretty sure some of the Jobo USA branded products, like the powder "Press Kit" for C-41 were made by PSI.

Steven Lee · Apr 19, 2025

mshchem said:
PSI has been making photochemistry for over 50 years

... and Xtol has been the king of reliable and dependable B&W developers for almost as long, regardless of the manufacturer. People need to spend less time on the Internet. Because it's the Internet where all "bad batches" of Xtol have been getting shipped to, so avoiding Xtol problems is very easy.

mshchem · Apr 19, 2025

Steven Lee said:
... and Xtol has been the king of reliable and dependable B&W developers for almost as long, regardless of the manufacturer. People need to spend less time on the Internet. Because it's the Internet where all "bad batches" of Xtol have been getting shipped to, so avoiding Xtol problems is very easy.

Yes, I use pure water and full storage bottles, through all the problems never had an issue. I know that there were packages that were suspect, not doubting that.

retina_restoration · Apr 19, 2025

Steven Lee said:
... and Xtol has been the king of reliable and dependable B&W developers for almost as long, regardless of the manufacturer. People need to spend less time on the Internet.

That's simply not true. As I stated, I bought bad Sino Promise chemistry several years ago and that sh*tty Xtol ruined several rolls of film. It was made fresh using distilled water, and yet it underdeveloped the negs so badly they were unusable. So please don't suggest that there were no bad batches from one of the manufacturers, since I experienced it myself. Not everything you find on the Web is manufactured conspiratorial nonsense.

PS: you didn't answer my original question.

runswithsizzers said:
@retina_restoration, I bought a 5 liter pkg of Kodak Xtol from B&H in October of 2024, and the packaging indicated "made in USA by Photo Systems, Inc." I mixed the kit with grocery store distilled water in November 2024.

So far, I have used that batch of Xtol to develop only one roll of film (it was a rough winter for my family):
Ilford Delta 3200 in 120 <https://garywright.smugmug.com/Photography/Ilford-Delta-3200-120-Nov-2024>

Thank you for that, Gary. I appreciate your report - I knew there had to be someone here that was using the PSI-made Xtol.

mshchem said:
I have (am using) PSI made XTOL, works fine. The problem stuff was from Sino Promise. Current batches (not old stock) available from B&H, Cinestill should be exactly the same as Kodak way back when. If you want the original HC-110 you'll need a time machine, Adox claims to be making the (OG) HC-110 syrup, we shall see.

Thank you for weighing in. Glad to hear the PSI Xtol is up to snuff. I don't use HC-110 - never have.

Melvin J Bramley · Apr 19, 2025

When XTOL works it's a good developer.
That said I have had enough issues using it, most recently with Tri X, to become suspect of it's reliability.

Meanwhile I have a fresh brew of ID11 standing by.

mshchem · Apr 19, 2025

The DARK BROWN Dektol batch that slipped out was terrible to see. I didn't experience it in person, and I know it worked by egads!

retina_restoration · Apr 20, 2025

Melvin J Bramley said:
When XTOL works it's a good developer.
That said I have had enough issues using it, most recently with Tri X, to become suspect of it's reliability.

Meanwhile I have a fresh brew of ID11 standing by.

When you say you “recently” had problems with it, was it the current version manufactured by Photo Systems??

retina_restoration · Apr 20, 2025

mshchem said:
The DARK BROWN Dektol batch that slipped out was terrible to see. I didn't experience it in person, and I know it worked by egads!

I got some of that, and though it did work, it made it difficult to see what was happening in the developing tray. After that, I’ve made all my print developer from scratch.

Melvin J Bramley · Apr 20, 2025

retina_restoration said:
When you say you “recently” had problems with it, was it the current version manufactured by Photo Systems??

I have only used XTOL twice.
My first batch was the original and it gave no problems.
I even split it , by weight, into 5 x mixes and it never let me down.
I now have the latest version which was purchased from a reliable seller whose stock never sits, and i am having poor results.
I have yet to determine if it's the XTOL or my error but I'm leaning to a poor batch of XTOL.

retina_restoration · Apr 20, 2025

Melvin J Bramley said:
I have only used XTOL twice.
My first batch was the original and it gave no problems.
I even split it , by weight, into 5 x mixes and it never let me down.
I now have the latest version which was purchased from a reliable seller whose stock never sits, and i am having poor results.
I have yet to determine if it's the XTOL or my error but I'm leaning to a poor batch of XTOL.

But who made the latest Xtol you’re using? Photo Systems?

mshchem · Apr 20, 2025

There's also a big issue of buying older stock at smaller retailers, even some online stores can have old stock.

Melvin J Bramley · Apr 20, 2025

retina_restoration said:
But who made the latest Xtol you’re using? Photo Systems?

I am guessing so much as the packaging is no long gone.
The product was definitely the latest as I had to wait for delivery of new stock.

pentaxuser · Apr 20, 2025

Melvin J Bramley said:
I have only used XTOL twice.
My first batch was the original and it gave no problems.
I even split it , by weight, into 5 x mixes and it never let me down.

Split it into 5 and no problems! You daredevil!

OK I'll give it another go so here goes once again. Folks, is Xtol the type of powder developer that a good shake should give you a perfect mixture of 5 mini-Xtols in 99 cases out of 100 or is Melvin the "Evil Knieval of Photrio"who just has the latter's luck and like him has that one in a million "right touch" that most of us do not have and where we crash into the Grand Canyon instead of leaping across it ?

pentaxuser

Milpool · Apr 20, 2025

pentaxuser said:
Split it into 5 and no problems! You daredevil!

OK I'll give it another go so here goes once again. Folks, is Xtol the type of powder developer that a good shake should give you a perfect mixture of 5 mini-Xtols in 99 cases out of 100 or is Melvin the "Evil Knieval of Photrio"who just has the latter's luck and like him has that one in a million "right touch" that most of us do not have and where we crash into the Grand Canyon instead of leaping across it ?

pentaxuser

It is not a good idea. The relative amounts of the compounds are too disparate. Consider that the vast majority of “stuff” in the packets is sodium sulfite, while the amounts of the other ingredients (all critical, and needing to be present in the right ratios) are much smaller - tiny in some cases.

mshchem · Apr 20, 2025

pentaxuser said:
Split it into 5 and no problems! You daredevil!

OK I'll give it another go so here goes once again. Folks, is Xtol the type of powder developer that a good shake should give you a perfect mixture of 5 mini-Xtols in 99 cases out of 100 or is Melvin the "Evil Knieval of Photrio"who just has the latter's luck and like him has that one in a million "right touch" that most of us do not have and where we crash into the Grand Canyon instead of leaping across it ?

pentaxuser

Splitting powders is an art as much as a science. When anything granular is sampled for testing certain "splitting" tools and techniques are used. I don't split powders, the manufacturers have done this for me. I just mix developers using pure water and decant into full bottles.

The folks who manufacture these powders use ingredients of appropriate size and condition that eases manufacturing and packaging (where the powder splitting occurs)

Melvin J Bramley · Apr 20, 2025

mshchem said:
Splitting powders is an art as much as a science. When anything granular is sampled for testing certain "splitting" tools and techniques are used. I don't split powders, the manufacturers have done this for me. I just mix developers using pure water and decant into full bottles.

The folks who manufacture these powders use ingredients of appropriate size and condition that eases manufacturing and packaging (where the powder splitting occurs)

As the NASA scientist said to the brain surgeon.
Your job is not exactly rocket science!

And so it goes; there is too much mystique around black and white photography nowadays.
I remember some 40 years ago when the magazine Darkroom Photography tested various premium black and white papers, comparing max D Max etc.
They announced the surprise of the pack was Freestyles Arista Classic that just beat out Ilfords Galerie!
Turned out that Arista Classic was just re packaged Galerie.

When some use caffeine to develop films I suspect the additional gram or minus makes little difference?

Splitting the XTOL rather than mixing the lot and making 5 mixes still makes sense to me particularly as MY results were more reliable.

Xtol from Photo Systems 2025?

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