Xtol discontinued?

Renato Tonelli said:

I know of only one clone -

"Legacy ECO-PRO Ascorbic Acid Powder B&W Film Developer" available from Freestyle.

Are there others?

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Mytol - mix your own.

Mark Overton is working on a liquid concentrate version of it too. Search his posts here under the name 'albada'.

Renato Tonelli said:

I know of only one clone -

"Legacy ECO-PRO Ascorbic Acid Powder B&W Film Developer" available from Freestyle.

Are there others?

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See upthread - Fomadon Excel. Main limitation seems to be availability in only 1L size, for nearly as much money as the Kodak 5L.

Not every photographer has easy access to alternatives. Here, finding products from any company other than Kodak and Ilford is practically impossible. It's the same problem with raw chemicals.

Let's assume some of us (like me) will buy a stash of XTOL as soon as it becomes available again - how long does it last in a darkroom environment? Can it be refrigerated? I am wondering if anyone has any experience with these variables.

If lack of availability becomes the norm, I will mix my own or most likely move entirely to D-23 (it's just two components + water!)

Renato Tonelli said:

Let's assume some of us (like me) will buy a stash of XTOL as soon as it becomes available again - how long does it last in a darkroom environment? Can it be refrigerated? I am wondering if anyone has any experience with these variables.

If lack of availability becomes the norm, I will mix my own or most likely move entirely to D-23 (it's just two components + water!)

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The powder bags you put in a dry place and you can practically leave it there for years, if not decades (as long as the bag isn't penetrated), mix it and use it. It really isn't until you introduce water that the life of most chemicals start to become compromised.

Somebody gave me ten cans of Kodak DK-50 that were very old, like 1960s and 1970s expiration dates if I remember correctly. I mixed them up and used them, and they worked perfectly without any issues. Like new. On the other hand, another person gave me bags of 777 developer, where one of the components is amidol, and it had turned dark brown, which is a sign it isn't usable anymore. It depends on the chemicals used, but Xtol should be fine for a very long time.

Thomas, do you know if you can use the Eco Pro stuff to continue replenishing a Kodak working solution.
Have you mixed the 2 together in a replenished system? ? ?

Renato Tonelli said:

Let's assume some of us (like me) will buy a stash of XTOL as soon as it becomes available again - how long does it last...

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See the next-to-last paragraph of my recent post here:

brucemuir said:

Thomas, do you know if you can use the Eco Pro stuff to continue replenishing a Kodak working solution.
Have you mixed the 2 together in a replenished system? ? ?

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Yes. I have mixed them back and forth, one 5 liter kit of Xtol followed by one 5 liter kit of ECO PRO, and then back again, continuously. The developer activity and results have never been different.

Thomas Bertilsson said:

Yes. I have mixed them back and forth, one 5 liter kit of Xtol followed by one 5 liter kit of ECO PRO, and then back again, continuously. The developer activity and results have never been different.

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Dig it. Thank you for your experiences ,Thomas.

Sal and Thomas - Thank you.

I hope this rumour is not true, especially since I'd have to change my username...

I just mixed my first 5 liters ever (started shooting december last year, analog in march this year)...

As far as I have followed the thread, x-tol is not discontinued.

I've been using the equivalent of Xtol from Freesytle- ECO Pro Ascorbic Acid Developer. Having great results with HP5 and FP4. Very fine grain in the negs.

I just called Freestyle. The rep said that XTOL has not been discontinued, and that they're expecting another shipment on Sep 19.

Mark Overton

This thread started when B&H dropped XTOL, saying it was discontinued by the manufacturer. That caused a small panic.
Now XTOL is being sold again on their site, and listed as "in stock".
It's anyone's guess what they were thinking. Perhaps it was a mistake, or merely a SKU-change.

Mark Overton

albada said:

...B&H dropped XTOL, saying it was discontinued by the manufacturer...Now XTOL is being sold again on their site, and listed as "in stock"...Perhaps it was a mistake, or merely a SKU-change...

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There are 262 5-liter packages in stock at B&H as this is typed. No change in item number. Perhaps Kodak did move to a different supplier than Champion and just got in the first batch? Pure speculation.

bascom49 said:

I have heard that Ilford has an xtol equivalent. Might be microdol or perceptol.

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DD-X is probably the closest equivalent that Ilford makes.

Suzuki DS-10 and DS-10X (from Silvergrain) are possibly better substitutes.

Suzuki DS-10 Fine grain developer

Water 700 ml
Sodium sulfite (anh) 75 g
Triethanolamins (99%) 10 ml
Ascorbic acid 8 g
Dimezone S 150 mg
Salicylic acid 1 g
Boric acid 4 g
Water to make 1 l

Target pH (at 25C) = 8.00±0.05
Replenish by bleed method at 120ml per 80 sq. in. of film processed.
Ref: Suzuki, R., Seventy-six years of D-76”, silvergrain.org Technical notes
http://web.archive.org/web/20070720...lvergrain_formulae#DS-10_Fine_grain_developer

Variation (Suzuki DS-10X)
Xtol- Mytol substitute
The formula for Xtol was published in a Photo Techniques article by the two people who formulated it. It contained no chelating agent. Later Kodak added one which improved its stability. Sudden death is caused by the Fenton reaction which is catalysed by iron and coppr impurities in the water and also in the chemicals used to make Xtol. It can be very rapid causing the developer to lose activity in a few hours. The following developer contains two chelating agents salicylic acid and triethanolamine.

DS-10X Fine Grain Developer by Ryuji Suzuki

Dimezone S 150 mg
Ascorbic acid 8.0 g
Boric acid 2.0 g
Salicylic acid 1.0 g
Sodium sulfite (anh) 75 g
Triethanolamine 10.0 ml
Distilled water to male 1 l

Salicylic acid can be obtained from many pharmacies and is not expensive. All the other ingredients are available from companies that sell photo chemicals. Development times are comparable to those of Xtol. I have used this developer and it is very good producing results very similar to Xtol. Doubling the amount of boric acid will yield even finer gain. This version DS-10 requires a 20% increase in development times.
Ref: APUG (Koch)

what is the usage for the ds-10 or ds-10x..as in 1:1; 1:2 etc....I currently use xtol with Tmax400 1:2 semi-stand and would want to get similar results
thanks in advance!!
Peter

Since I initiated the thread, I've emailed Henry Posner to seek a clarification. Myself, I laid in 5 packages from Calumet and 5 of the equivalent from Freestyle. So, at least I have my needs taken care of for a couple of years .

Obviously, if B&H responds, I will post that here.

Well im quite stocked up! Im happy that it didnt get discontinued! It goes pretty quickly when using it as a one shot 1:2 or even 1:1. Hopefully they figure out on that other thread a good working and stable formula for the concentrate.

Peter Schrager said:

what is the usage for the ds-10 or ds-10x..as in 1:1; 1:2 etc....I currently use xtol with Tmax400 1:2 semi-stand and would want to get similar results

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The active development ingredients of Xtol and DS-10 are fairly similar, the main difference is that DS-10 uses TEA and Salicylic Acid to protect the Ascorbic Acid while Xtol uses a sequestering agent (DTPA). From looking at the numbers, DS-10(X) looks more concentrated with regards to its development agents, so diluting DS-10(X) should work at least as well.

I'm finding xtol in a number of good sources. Thought it was gone, but doesn't appear to be. It's my #1.