Xtol discontinued?

Rolfe Tessem · Sep 12, 2012

Xtol appears to be out of stock everywhere, and B&H is listing it as "discontinued."

I queried B&H by email and got a reply that, "Our buyer says he doesnt expect to see Kodak brand Xtol ever again." Now, whether this means that there will be Champion brand Xtol or something else, that is completely unclear. Kodak sold off their photochemistry division to Champion some years ago, so the Kodak labeled Xtol hasn't actually been made by Kodak for quite some time. You would think that would also mean it would be unaffected by the bankruptcy.

Unknown to me (until today) was the fact that Freestyle distributes an Xtol clone under the LegacyPro brand (formerly Kentmere I believe).

I just ordered 5 packages to be sure I'm covered in the short term at least.

albada · Sep 12, 2012

Freestyle's website says that a new delivery is expected around Sept 14 (in two days). Here's the link:
http://freestylephoto.biz/8751752-Kodak-XTOL-Powder-Film-Developer-to-Make-5-Liter

Mark Overton

Rolfe Tessem said:
Xtol appears to be out of stock everywhere, and B&H is listing it as "discontinued."

I queried B&H by email and got a reply that, "Our buyer says he doesnt expect to see Kodak brand Xtol ever again." Now, whether this means that there will be Champion brand Xtol or something else, that is completely unclear. Kodak sold off their photochemistry division to Champion some years ago, so the Kodak labeled Xtol hasn't actually been made by Kodak for quite some time. You would think that would also mean it would be unaffected by the bankruptcy.

Unknown to me (until today) was the fact that Freestyle distributes an Xtol clone under the LegacyPro brand (formerly Kentmere I believe).

I just ordered 5 packages to be sure I'm covered in the short term at least.

Newt_on_Swings · Sep 12, 2012

Whew... Man it would suck if xtol was gone. It's one of my main developers.

Sal Santamaura · Sep 12, 2012

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

http://www.largeformatphotography.i...-has-been-discontinued-annyone-else-hear-this

bascom49 · Sep 12, 2012

I have heard that Ilford has an xtol equivalent. Might be microdol or perceptol.

bascom49 · Sep 12, 2012

Microphen is what I'm thinking about for an Xtol equivalent.

dnjl · Sep 12, 2012

Of course it's discontinued! I started using it, that's why!

Sometimes, the laws of causality make me wonder

Roger Cole · Sep 12, 2012

There's already a thread on this under Product Availability:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ilford DD-X is often suggested as an alternative but is probably more like T-Max developer than Xtol. There are other developers on the market that claim to be very similar, see the above thread. MSDSs may look different but that doesn't necessarily mean they will (or won't) work very differently. The Xtol formula, at least the approximate formula, is hardly a secret, see the bottom of this page:

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/xtol/

For a scratch mixed developer said to produce negatives indistinguishable from Xtol:

http://www.jackspcs.com/mytol.htm

julhu · Sep 12, 2012

I believe Fomadon Excel is similar to Xtol. This is at least what one can read on the internet...

Roger Cole · Sep 12, 2012

Fomadon Excel is listed as an ascorbic acid developer so it is probably at least similar (and more likely closer than just similar) but as far as I see from a couple of sources checked is only available in 1 liter packs for $6. Not that outrageous but way more than people have been paying per liter for the Kodak 5L packs.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 12, 2012

there are several recipes on the net to make your own.

Bruce Osgood · Sep 12, 2012

Freestyle lists Xtol to make 5Ltr.

Currently Out of Stock
Approximate delivery date from vendor: Sep 14, 2012

No mention of being discontinued.

I suspect they had a run on their stock after it had been reported Kodak is going out of business.

As Ralph say's, there are a number of formulas available to brew your own. In the past I've tried Paul Lewis's "Mytol" as found in Jacks Specs. I don't know how closely it compares to Xtol and it doesn't look much like Mark Overtons' (Albada/APUG) work with his version. But it did make negatives.

Rolfe Tessem · Sep 12, 2012

It is rare that every supplier in the country has no stock at all, which appears to be the current situation. This does lend some credence to the possibility that Xtol from Kodak is done.

Henry Posner, who speaks for B&H, replied to me in an email that, "Our buyer says he doesnt expect to see Kodak brand Xtol ever again."

To me, that is a pretty strong statement coming from B&H, but the qualifier of the "Kodak brand" may lead some to read between the lines.

All I care is that this developer is available from somebody -- I do understand that it is not that difficult to prepare from scratch.

brian steinberger · Sep 12, 2012

Interesting that D-76 is still available. Could just be massive amounts of stock. I'd expect D-76 and all Kodak chems to go. Good thing there's Ilford and ID-11.

Roger Cole · Sep 12, 2012

I'd hate to lose T-Max RS but I suppose I can move to DD-X with no problem.

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 12, 2012

For what it's worth, the Legacy Pro ECO PRO Ascorbic Acid developer behaves exactly like Xtol. I've been switching back between it and regular Kodak Xtol, using it both replenished and as diluted stock, and I get identical results in my prints.
This is good to know in case you don't like to mix your own.

Newt_on_Swings · Sep 13, 2012

Ok this kinda sucks. Time to stock up a bit.

Edit: Just bought 6 packs from calumet online through their amazon store which saves like $5 on shipping. Plus calumet customer service is hands down excellent if anything goes wrong.

Adorama still has it in stock as well. but their shipping rates are more expensive.

Felinik · Sep 13, 2012

Maybe someone has connections inside Kodak and could dig up some facts here?

Roger Cole · Sep 13, 2012

See Thomas's post above. Who cares? If you like Xtol just get the Eco Pro stuff and be happy. The MSDSs may be different but if the results are the same it really doesn't matter.

Newt_on_Swings · Sep 13, 2012

Roger Cole said:
See Thomas's post above. Who cares? If you like Xtol just get the Eco Pro stuff and be happy. The MSDSs may be different but if the results are the same it really doesn't matter.

It's also cheaper by a few dollars. But if the real deal is still able to be bought why not? I'll get the freestyle version when I place my next order and compare it myself as well. It's good to know there is an alternative out there.

I wonder if this will go the way of rodinal as well.

Roger Cole · Sep 13, 2012

Yeah, I understand that. I buy the Kodak D76 because it's only very slightly more expensive. But I buy Legacy Pro brown toner because the Kodak is only sold in gallon sizes for something like $300 and hard to find at that (though I think others are similar.) I was buying the Kodak rapid fix, but changed to Legacy Pro for a related reason - the Kodak is only available in 1 gallon, which isn't large enough, and 25 gallons which is way too much. The Legacy Pro I can get in a good-for-me 5 gallon size, which is much cheaper than 5x1 gallon even including shipping, but isn't a "lifetime supply guaranteed to go bad before I'd use it" 25 gallon size.

I've suspected that some of the Legacy Pro stuff might be made by Champion anyway. I hope not, simply because if Kodak goes away or Champion stops making their stuff the LP might go away too. Still, there are alternatives for most things.

Felinik · Sep 13, 2012

Roger Cole said:
See Thomas's post above. Who cares? If you like Xtol just get the Eco Pro stuff and be happy. The MSDSs may be different but if the results are the same it really doesn't matter.

I was simply thinking about the amount of wasted time on speculations, could all be ended with one phone call by the right person.

Roger Cole · Sep 13, 2012

Felinik said:
I was simply thinking about the amount of wasted time on speculations, could all be ended with one phone call by the right person.

I was actually replying to the post above yours about stocking up, but didn't quote it.

Renato Tonelli · Sep 13, 2012

I know of only one clone -

"Legacy ECO-PRO Ascorbic Acid Powder B&W Film Developer" available from Freestyle.

Are there others?

Rudeofus · Sep 13, 2012

While it would be sad to see such a popular dev go away, I wouldn't worry too much about developers. Every semidecent shop can cook up a similar developer and bring it to market. Look, how many tiny suppliers of film chemistry are out there! If Xtol really goes away, several of them will happily fill the void.

I'd worry about emulsions going away, not about film developers.

Xtol discontinued?

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