XTOL Developer FILM/PAPER

RonyfromTokyo · Dec 18, 2019

Just joined! Hi everyone

I am about to embark on the BW road. Will be shooting Tmax-400 mainly since I have 100ft roll.

First time developing at home, so I wanted some advice regarding film developer and paper prints.

Will be using XTOL+Lab-box (continuous agitation), XTOL only for FILM, paper development undecided. Approx. 280ml used for developing in Lab-box

What is confusing me (after a lot of reading and Kodak pdfs!):

How should I mix XTOL 5 Liters pack, just mix part of the powder chemicals to save for later use?

OR should I just make the whole batch? 5 Liters is a lot, but that’s what is available here

2. What is replenishing, mixing used with unused developer etc? Need to worry about it or just use what I need from 5L batch? If required how do I replenish and what to look out for…

3. Should I print BW paper in a rolling processor, eg Fujimoto CP31?
OR should I do it in trays to inspect developing? (Does this really matter…in terms of recommended developing times for paper)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

PS. Any film photographers in Tokyo that process themselves? Would be great to meet you all.

Rony
Tokyo, JP

MattKing · Dec 18, 2019

Welcome to Photrio.
I use X-Tol in a replenishment regime, so from my perspective you have made a good choice!
To answer some of your questions ...
X-Tol is only available in the size to make 5 litres. While that is a slightly inconvenient size, it does make for good economy.
It is almost never a good idea to mix up part of a package of powdered chemicals. It is virtually impossible to ensure that a package is homogeneous, so if you try to mix parts of it at different times, the different parts will differ.
Once you mix up 5 litres, it is a great idea to split it into 5 separate litre size bottles - glass (with good caps) is best, but well cleaned pop/soda bottles are used by many.
I like using X-Tol replenished - I set it up with about 2 litres working solution, then every time I have film developing in the tank, add ~ 70 ml of fresh developer to the partly empty working solution container for each roll being developed. When you pour the recently used developer from the developing tank back to the working solution container, just discard the excess. The regularly replenished working solution can last for years.
If you don't want to use X-Tol replenished, it works great "one-shot" if you dilute the stock 1+1 (indicated as 1:1 in Kodak's nomenclature).
With any developer, it helps to minimize contact with air. Many people like to transfer the unused balance of developer from a partially empty container to a small, more full container.
Roller processors are great for volume production. Trays are more fun - seeing the print appear before my eyes is something that continues to excite me, and I've been doing this for more than 50 years!
If trays demand more space than you have available, slot processors and developing tubes are a possible alternative.
Hope you have fun!

RonyfromTokyo · Dec 18, 2019

Hi Matt!

Thanks for the quick response. Very helpful!!!
I will go with the replenish method. As for storage I like the 1 liter bottle idea! Infact I was looking into wine bottles and use wine sealing caps that vacuum out air (hand pump). That way don't have to keep on transferring to smaller bottles. Just managed to get a NOVA processor for paper. Should make for an interesting experience.

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 18, 2019

Hi RonyfromTokyo. Welcome to Photrio. I lived down in Fukuoka prefecture for 12 years... I go back every couple of years...I'll be in Tokyo for 4 days, then head down to Kyushu in March... Anyways, Xtol is a great developer straight, diluted one-shot, or replenished. I always used it one-shot, at 1+1, or 1+3. Mix up the 5 litres, and store them in PET bottles. I teach photography at high school and the fist thing I retired the processor. Trays are way more fun, as one can watch the image emerge. I shoot TMY-2 at EI 250. Cheers!

abruzzi · Dec 19, 2019

A useful way to store 5 liters of Xtol, is a 5l box of wine. Dump (or drink) rinse out the bag, remove the spout, pour the mixed Xtol into the bag, squeeze the air out of the bag and replace the spout. It’s useful for one shot because the bag collapses as you pour chems out, meaning no air makes its way back in.

RonyfromTokyo · Dec 19, 2019

Thanks for all the replies! Very useful

At Andrew, if you are up to it maybe we can meet for a coffee when you are in Tokyo.

freecitizen · Dec 19, 2019

I posted the following in another thread .... It may be helpful here ....

Xtol works extremely well as a one shot developer, either straight or diluted … however ….

I have been using replenished xtol for a couple of years now. When I went up to 4x5 and 5x7 I found that the volumes of developer I needed were so large ( tray or tank/inversion ) that I could not reasonably use a developer as one-shot. Inversion in my Jobo 4x5 tank needed about 1.3 litres each time.

So I went to replenished, and can simply pour as much developer as I need into the tank and replenish using stock xtol.

I make up 5 litres of Xtol and store it in multiple glass 200ml glass bottles ( discards from the chemist ) with airtight screw-on caps ( each one filled to the brim, no air ). That way my stock Xtol stays fresh without degradation from air contact. The replenished developer is kept in a huge swing-top Grolsch beer bottle which is always filled to the top. I pour whatever is needed into the tank and develop. While agitating, I add 75 mls fresh stock xtol per roll to the bottle and when development is complete I pour the developer from the dev tank back into the big bottle until it is full, then discard any leftover developer down the sink.

The replenished brew has become very stable. I decided to get serious and dialed in my personal film speed ( for Zone I ) and development time to get a proper print value for Zone VIII as per Fred Picker's method outlined in his Zone VI Workshop book. I am getting very consistent negatives with FP4 and HP5, all formats. They generally print well at about grade 2 ( diffusion enlarger ). Sharpness and tonality are excellent. I do proper proofs at grade 2, and include a Stouffer stepwedge on each proof sheet, to see things stay on track.

Going through this process has taught me a great deal and given me confidence in the materials I use. I find I am concentrating more on making pictures, rather than having doubts of the technical variety, at the moment and I am enjoying that.

Tony-S · Dec 19, 2019

abruzzi said:
A useful way to store 5 liters of Xtol, is a 5l box of wine. Dump (or drink) rinse out the bag, remove the spout, pour the mixed Xtol into the bag, squeeze the air out of the bag and replace the spout. It’s useful for one shot because the bag collapses as you pour chems out, meaning no air makes its way back in.

This is what I do and Xtol will last more than a year by doing so.

removed account4 · Dec 19, 2019

hi rony !
you might find that xtol for paper will take a little while to develop the paper, it is slow working from what i remember
i use caffenol c for paper and it is the same sort of thing takes a little while, so keep that in mind if when you use it and after
the 2 or 3 mins is over and done you are scratching your head wondering about your prints. its probably a great developer for paper negatives
because it is lower contrast and paper negatives can sometimes be filled with lots of contrast
have fun!
john

ps. trays ~ +1 !

MattKing · Dec 19, 2019

freecitizen said:
I make up 5 litres of Xtol and store it in multiple glass 200ml glass bottles ( discards from the chemist )

I expect that this might need translation. I'm guessing freecitizen is in the UK (correct me if I am mistaken!), where "chemist" often refers to what we call the "pharmacist".
English can be such a flexible language!

Sirius Glass · Dec 19, 2019

Mix all the XTOL and store in one liter bottles. I only use replenished XTOL for film. I have never used XTOL for paper.

RonyfromTokyo · Dec 19, 2019

Everyone thank you so much!
I will try to incorporate all your advice.
On a side note, fixer can be reused, replenished? Stop as well?

Sirius Glass · Dec 19, 2019

RonyfromTokyo said:
Everyone thank you so much!
I will try to incorporate all your advice.
On a side note, fixer can be reused, replenished? Stop as well?

Yes use stop bath.

MattKing · Dec 19, 2019

RonyfromTokyo said:
Everyone thank you so much!
I will try to incorporate all your advice.
On a side note, fixer can be reused, replenished? Stop as well?

Film fixer can and should be used to something approaching the manufacturer's capacity numbers. You may need to filter it. It is wise to check its capacity using a clip test. Here is a link to how to do a clip test, and my method: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resou...ixing-procedure-for-black-white-negatives.75/.
Film Fixer can be replenished, but it only makes sense in a high volume lab situation.
For prints, some of the same concerns apply, but it is more difficult to confirm activity.
If possible, used fixer should be recycled in order to avoid dumping the silver in it into the environment. Facilities and methods available will vary by location.
Stop bath is somewhat problematic. Acetic acid based stop bath (like Kodak's) can be stored longer than citric acid based stop bath (like Ilford's) because citric acid based stop bath is an excellent environment for growing mould!
Most stop baths for photographic use incorporate an indicator that turns a different colour when the stop bath is exhausted.
Stop bath is really cheap - I use it one shot with film, except when I'm developing multiple rolls during the same day, in which case I re-use it throughout that day.
I've never encountered anyone who replenished stop bath.
For film you can replace stop bath with a running water rinse, but there are advantages to stop bath (immediate stop of development, maximize fixer life) that lead me to prefer using stop bath.

NB23 · Dec 19, 2019

I don’t understand how one can keep xtol for a year. Are we diehard shooters or what!!

The way I do it is simpe: Once I have 40 rolls of exposed film, I mix a bag of XTOL and I develop all the films within a 2-4 days period.

Same for ilfosol-3, I wait until I have 20 exposed rolls of film. This way I’m sure that the developer is fresh and that my films get developed quite consistantly.

Tony-S · Dec 20, 2019

NB23 said:
I don’t understand how one can keep xtol for a year. Are we diehard shooters or what!! The way I do it is simpe: Once I have 40 rolls of exposed film, I mix a bag of XTOL and I develop all the films within a 2-4 days period.

My understanding that images can start to deteriorate after the film has been exposed, so you're better off processing the film as soon as you can. (I'm sure someone will chime in if this is incorrect.) Waiting for 40 rolls would take me a lot of time!

NB23 · Dec 20, 2019

Tony-S said:
My understanding that images can start to deteriorate after the film has been exposed, so you're better off processing the film as soon as you can. (I'm sure someone will chime in if this is incorrect.) Waiting for 40 rolls would take me a lot of time!

Then, the Legendary HC-110/Ilfotec-HC developers are designed just for you!

Tony-S · Dec 20, 2019

NB23 said:
Then, the Legendary HC-110/Ilfotec-HC developers are designed just for you!

I've used HC-110 many decades ago and although nice, I prefer XTOL. Haven't used the Ilfotec - is it the same formulation as HC-110?

NB23 · Dec 20, 2019

Tony-S said:
I've used HC-110 many decades ago and although nice, I prefer XTOL. Haven't used the Ilfotec - is it the same formulation as HC-110?

yes but not quite. Usually, ilfotecHC requires 1 extra minute of development vs Hc110.

Just use Xtol, then. And don’t be stingy. In case of doubt; discard the developer. It’s a matter of 1-2$ in the end.

Fatih Ayoglu · Mar 7, 2024

I know this is an old thread and worth a shot as I have learnt great deal about Xtol-R on this thread and will go and just do it. I have 5l XT-3 which I can divide into 2/1/1/1 stop bags and use 2l part as working solution and 1l part as replenisher at 70ml per film as Xtol J109.

So I have 3 main question here;
1) I have XT3, not Xtol, would that work for replenishment system?
2) Regarding development times, do I go for small tank full strength developer times for the first 5-10 rolls and then move to large tanks with seasoned developer times. There is usually around 1 minute difference.
3) Can I freeze some of the replenisher? Like I can keep 1l out and 2x 1l in the freezer. (I freeze working strength C41 developer with no visible ill effect)

Many thanks,
Fatih

John Wiegerink · Mar 7, 2024

Fatih Ayoglu said:
I know this is an old thread and worth a shot as I have learnt great deal about Xtol-R on this thread and will go and just do it. I have 5l XT-3 which I can divide into 2/1/1/1 stop bags and use 2l part as working solution and 1l part as replenisher at 70ml per film as Xtol J109.

So I have 3 main question here;
1) I have XT3, not Xtol, would that work for replenishment system?
2) Regarding development times, do I go for small tank full strength developer times for the first 5-10 rolls and then move to large tanks with seasoned developer times. There is usually around 1 minute difference.
3) Can I freeze some of the replenisher? Like I can keep 1l out and 2x 1l in the freezer. (I freeze working strength C41 developer with no visible ill effect)

Many thanks,
Fatih

XT-3 works just as well as Xtol for a replenishing system. I switched from Xtol to XT-3 awhile back and, for a couple of reasons, like it better than Xtol. I bought the 5L bag, but they also make a 1L. I mix my whole 5L batch, then take 1 gallon into a 1 gallon Boston glass jug. The remainder goes into a AstroPouch bag as the replenisher. I have some old unexposed 120 film that is good for nothing and use that to season my stock. Then I use 80ml replenisher for each roll.
I have found the AstroPouch bags even better than using and refilling wine bags. The bags come in different sizes, are very easy to fill and have a spigot. Another plus of the bag is that when you fill it, its bottom expands so that it will sit on the shelf without any support.
I know nothing about freezing, so can't help you there. I do think if you went the replenishing route, you could eliminate the thought of freezing developer. I had my last batch of Xtol-R go for more than two years and it could have probably went longer.

XTOL Developer FILM/PAPER

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