XA: Too unprofessional?

GeorgeDexter · Jul 25, 2009

1. I probably lost a wedding job for showing up to the engagement photo shoot with a Sigma EX 28-70mm f2.8 lens. The father of the bride questioned me about it at the time, asking why I didn't have a Nikon lens. After the engagement shoot, which turned out well, they "decided to go with someone else." It's true, I was pretty green, but the customers' opinion of my gear didn't help.
2. Having only the 35mm focal length is going to be very limiting. It might make you get creative, but it might also keep you from shooting some of the shots you otherwise would. As others before have said, beg borrow or steal an SLR or other professional camera. You can always pull out the XA during the shoot for "creative" shots. Always have a backup. Always have a backup.

2F/2F · Jul 25, 2009

GeorgeDexter said:
1. I probably lost a wedding job for showing up to the engagement photo shoot with a Sigma EX 28-70mm f2.8 lens. The father of the bride questioned me about it at the time, asking why I didn't have a Nikon lens. After the engagement shoot, which turned out well, they "decided to go with someone else." It's true, I was pretty green, but the customers' opinion of my gear didn't help.

There is no rule that says clients cannot be idiots and assholes.

Whether or not you let a situation like that phase you is a matter of personality I guess.

Some people think that getting money and repeat business at any cost is worth, well...any cost! "The customer is always right", they love to say.

Personally, I subscribe to the idea that most of the rest of the world seems to believe in business: That the customer is NOT always right, and does not own you. If you lose an idiot and asshole customer, then you are better off in the long run.

This does not mean being unfriendly. It does not mean that there is something wrong with you. It simply means that you expect certain things from your customers the same way they expect certain things from you.

You can't let money rule you. You have to have pride in your own work and your own equipment, whatever it may be. If you are doing a good job, and someone has something smug to say about your equipment, be happy that they don't come back. It will be a good riddance from your life and your business. I have turned away people who have come back to me, simply because they were idiots and assholes, and I'd rather not have their money than work for them again.

BetterSense · Jul 25, 2009

the customer is NOT always right, and does not own you. If you lose an idiot and asshole customer, then you are better off in the long run.

This does not mean being unfriendly. It does not mean that there is something wrong with you. It simply means that you expect certain things from your customers the same way they expect certain things from you.

Quoted for truthiness. This is one of the greatest lessons I learned at my last "real" job (pizza delivery management). You can't please everyone all the time, no matter what you do, and the customer is NOT actually always right. When customers are reasonable and honest and so on, bend over backwards to please them. But pleasing the bad apples is not your job. Appeasing them only encourages them. Better to send them to the competition and focus on the solid customers.

Q.G. · Jul 26, 2009

It isn't a world of extremes either.
A customer who is partially wrong can still be a good customer. Having expectations that are not quite realistic does not immediately turn them into idiots and assholes whose custom you do not want.

Customers turn to a professional because they believe they know more about whatever it is they are buying than they themselves. The real idiot customers you do not want as customers are the ones who think (might even be true) they know just as well, or even better, and want you to know that they do.
Part of that - whether right or wrong: doesn't matter much - is that they expect to see 'special', 'professional' equipment. Not the stuff they themselves have and use.
Nobody wants to turn to someone for help with something they think they can't do themselves, hand over money, and then be given the feeling that they could have done it themselves after all.

That doesn't automatically mean that you have to impress them using the equipment you are toting. There (hopefully) are more important reasons why they are better off asking a professional rather than doing it themselves.
But as long as the professional/expert hasn't shown to them to be just that through other things, it still is one of the main things people look for. People want to know that they make the right decision, and no matter how insignificant it may be, if it is the only thing they can latch on to, keeping up the semblance of a professional, even through the bits of equipment you have, is important.

It is part of professional skills to know and acknowledge that, and deal with it appropriately and effectively.
If a customer frowns at the XA you are bringing along to the shoot (and most, if not all, will), reassure them, explaining what you are going to do, how that is something they'll love, and why the XA doesn't matter, or even helps.

2F/2F · Jul 26, 2009

Q.G. said:
It isn't a world of extremes either.
A customer who is partially wrong can still be a good customer. Having expectations that are not quite realistic does not immediately turn them into idiots and assholes whose custom you do not want.

Yes.

I am referring to those who actually are idiots and assholes; not just those who might "bug" a bit. Something along the lines of these folks that you mentioned:

"Customers turn to a professional because they believe they know more about whatever it is they are buying than they themselves. The real idiot customers you do not want as customers are the ones who think (might even be true) they know just as well, or even better, and want you to know that they do."

elekm · Jul 26, 2009

Glad to hear that the final images turned out good and that everyone was pleased.

Regardless, it was the wrong camera for a commercial job. If you hire someone to do a job for you, you expect that person to show up as a professional with the right tools for the job.

As for me, it wasn't about being a naysayer, only that it was a paid assignment, and if I was paying that bill, I would have canceled the shoot when you showed up with a single camera -- and one that appears to be an amateur model.

By the way, the Olympus XA is a very nice camera.

DLawson · Jul 28, 2009

BetterSense said:
Not to hijack, but does anyone with some experience with the XA cameras have any advice on using the fiddly shutter release? Sometimes it just doesn't want to go off no matter how hard I press it. Maybe it's my fat fingers but it's caused me to miss some shots.

When I ran into that this last weekend, it usually ended up being that the lens cover was slightly short of opened. I've only used the one, so I don't know if that's common.

My problem was the opposite -- trying to position my finger in a "ready" position, I'd trip the shutter.

juanito · Jul 28, 2009

If you shoot with a Leica you can make the final image to look as it was shot by an XA, I mean by post processing it in the darkroom, no PS, but if you shoot with an XA it is impossible to make the image look as it was shot by a Leica.
That is in my IMHO the importance to shoot with good gear.

Bob Carnie · Jul 28, 2009

I thought the OP did a pretty good job and I am sure the group enjoyed the images. I have seen some pretty big budget gigs shot with holga and toy cameras.
Next time try a pinhole , I am sure quite a few covers from the 70's were shot that way.

Markok765 · Jul 28, 2009

Bob Carnie said:
I thought the OP did a pretty good job and I am sure the group enjoyed the images. I have seen some pretty big budget gigs shot with holga and toy cameras.
Next time try a pinhole , I am sure quite a few covers from the 70's were shot that way.

Hmm, may try a holga with a strobe next time... some kind of Holga/WeeGee style!

dynachrome · Jul 31, 2009

I didn't like the XA when it first came out. It just looked too flimsy. A neighbor bought one, against my advice. It broke a few weeks later and she asked me to bring it to the cmaera stor I worked at part-time, not the store where she bought it. For occasional delicate use I'm sure an XA is capable of good results. It certainy has an elegant design and the person who designed it, Maitani, just died. For more constant use an old Nikkormat wil be far more reliable. When I got married, almost 20 yars ago, there were two photographers at the wedding. One has a Bronica ETR and the other a Hasselblad. Most of the album photos were 8X10" with some cropping. The Bronica and Hasselblad photos were equally good. Once you get past a certain level of quality it's the skill of the photographer which is the important factor. Various camera types can be used to photograpoh a wedding. If you make sure the equipment is in working order and practice using it before the wedding you will save the bride and groom and yourself a lot of grief. It doesn't hurt it bring a back-up camera and flash either.

Chan Tran · Aug 1, 2009

I like the XA and I think it's capable of the job but people simply won't trust you with such a camera. It's not fair but that the way it is.

k_jupiter · Aug 1, 2009

Marko,

now you know why I told you years ago to get an FM2.

You wouldn't be having these problems. *L*

tim in san jose

Markok765 · Aug 1, 2009

k_jupiter said:
Marko,

now you know why I told you years ago to get an FM2.

You wouldn't be having these problems. *L*

tim in san jose

I got a Leica now, so no more problems!

Q.G. · Aug 1, 2009

dynachrome said:
I didn't like the XA when it first came out. It just looked too flimsy. A neighbor bought one, against my advice. It broke a few weeks later and she asked me to bring it to the cmaera stor I worked at part-time, not the store where she bought it. For occasional delicate use I'm sure an XA is capable of good results. [...] It doesn't hurt it bring a back-up camera and flash either.

I don't know.
I used to stuff an XA in the pocket of my jeans when out hiking. It survived many, many miles of rough and wet terrain. Still works perfectly today.
(To put it in perspective: a 'smart phone' i carried the same way - for the GPS it had - didn't survive its first trip).

I too thought the XA might not survive rough treatment, and had bought a spare.
The spare still works perfectly too

Q.G. · Aug 1, 2009

Markok765 said:
I got a Leica now, so no more problems!

How about a good lens for your Leica?

BetterSense · Aug 1, 2009

I dropped my XA2 on the sidewalk hard once and the back popped open. I lost only the latest 6-8 frames. Now I secure the back with a bit of electrical tape.

Markok765 · Aug 1, 2009

Q.G. said:
How about a good lens for your Leica?

The J-8s quite good, and everything else for screwmount is expensive!
Maybe the CV 15mm f4.5! APUG can get me a b-day present

EASmithV · Aug 1, 2009

Oh lord, don't use an XA, please... I looked it up and thought it was a P&S... :rolleyes:

XA: Too unprofessional?

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